Real portability? Nikon and Pentax are working on it

Discussion in 'Digital SLR' started by RichA, May 9, 2011.

  1. RichA

    RichA Guest

    Rumours still that Nikon is working on an EVIL with a sensor with
    about 1/2 the area of 4/3rds while Pentax is working on one with a
    sensor the size of...a superzoom P&S!!!

    Will it be like this?
    RichA, May 9, 2011
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  2. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    Who knows?

    What I do know is that the Nikon mirrorless compact system camera
    (CSC) is definitely coming. It was due to be released in time for the
    2011 holidays but has been delayed by the earthquake/tsunami. I don't
    know what the sensor size will be, but last year's strongest rumour
    was for a 3/2 aspect ratio sensor with a similar area to Four Thirds,
    giving a 2X focal length multiplier from full frame or 35mm film.

    Nikon has four major announcements coming in the next 12 months. Apart
    from the CSC, there is the D3s/x successor (D4?), the D300 successor
    (D400 or even D9000?) and the D700 successor (D800). The first
    announcement is currently planned for late August 2011, but there are
    no reliable rumours as to which of these it will be.

    There is the prospect of 34 MP and 24 MP FX (full frame) sensors for
    the D4 and D800 respectively, and a 24 MP DX (APS-C) sensor for the
    D400. The sensors will all be made by Sony.

    The 24 MP APS-C sensor will also appear in the Sony Alpha A77 SLT. The
    34 MP full frame sensor might appear in a Sony Alpha "A99" SLT if Sony
    makes the decision to offer a full frame camera.

    A full frame SLT is by no means certain given the extremely slow sales
    of the A900 and A850 and the huge ongoing financial losses that Sony
    has endured with the Alpha system. What *is* certain is that there
    will not be any more full frame Sony DSLRs.
    Bruce, May 9, 2011
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  3. RichA

    Bowser Guest

    If Pentax does ape their failed 110 camera, it'll fail as well. What
    would you rather carry, that stupid little interchangeable lens camera
    or a good quality superzoom where you don't have to change lenses?

    I'll keep my FZ35.
    Bowser, May 9, 2011
  4. RichA

    Rich Guest

    Well, you have a point. Any camera outfitted with such a sensor will be a
    huge compromise. I think though the selling feature will be the ability to
    mount a very small lens (the old Pentax 24mm lens is the size of an old SLR
    hot shoe, almost) and carry the camera comfortably in your pocket, with
    perhaps a longer lens or zoom in another pocket, if needed. You can't do
    that with a lumpen Superzoom.
    Rich, May 9, 2011
  5. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    The Pentax 110 SLR was a niche produce way back when. I agree it
    would be crazy to ape it in a CSC, although there is already a Pentax
    P&S which looks very like it:

    I'm very impressed with my partner's FZ38 (same model as the FZ35).

    Very, very, very few people need any more camera than this. ;-)
    Bruce, May 9, 2011
  6. RichA

    Eric Stevens Guest

    Canon G12?


    Eric Stevens
    Eric Stevens, May 9, 2011
  7. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    The FZ35/38 is a particularly compact camera, much smaller than some
    other superzooms. But if you want a truly pocketable camera, there
    are quite a few P&S digicams that have *both* excellent image quality
    *and* a useful zoom range.

    Staying with Panasonic, the LUMIX DMC-ZS10 (TZ20 in Europe) and ZS-8
    (TZ18) offer a very slim, easily pocketable form factor and extremely
    good image quality. A 14.1 MP sensor, an image processor with very
    good control of noise, 1080i AVCHD video (720P MPEG on the cheaper
    ZS-8) and a 16X zoom Leica-badged lens (24-384 mm equivalent) makes
    for a very good package. All this for under $350 at B&H.

    Of course these cameras won't suit the DSLR snobs, even though most of
    those haven't a hope in hell of demonstrating any superiority over the
    results these fine digicams can produce.
    Bruce, May 9, 2011
  8. RichA

    Bowser Guest

    True enough, but will a camera that small be usable? Even for those of
    us with average size hands, I can't see how it will be anything but
    clumsy. Even the NEX 5 is cutting it close for being too small.

    We'll see. No point debating the pros and cons of rumored cams. In the
    meantime, I'll continue to enjoy the three cams I do have since I'm
    pretty sure they're not rumors.
    Bowser, May 10, 2011
  9. RichA

    Bowser Guest

    Hey! Does this make you a "superzoom snob?"

    Bowser, May 10, 2011
  10. RichA

    Bowser Guest

    I use mine all the time, unless the situation calls for the 5D II. But
    Panasonic did a nice job on the FZ35. Best JPG engine on the market, and
    an auto mode that really, really works well. Love it.
    Bowser, May 10, 2011
  11. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    No, but there is nothing wrong with singing their praises.

    People who obsess about pixel densities and unquestioningly assert
    that only DSLRs will do are denying themselves the opportunity to use
    these outstanding cameras.
    Bruce, May 10, 2011
  12. RichA

    Bowser Guest

    Likewise, anyone who claims that ANY camera, superzoom or not, is good
    for everything is also denying reality. I've yet to see a one size fits
    all solution.
    Bowser, May 10, 2011
  13. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    True, but a good superzoom comes very close, satisfying the needs of
    more people than any other camera type. Quite a few people find
    superzooms intimidating, and want something smaller and/or simpler,
    and a P&S is ideal for them.

    P&S and superzooms together cover the needs of the vast majority of
    camera users. Very few people need a DSLR, but many more people buy
    them than need them. Perhaps mirrorless CSCs offer a good compromise?
    Bruce, May 10, 2011
  14. RichA

    Bowser Guest

    Not until the Af improves. For all the hype, the AF systems (at least
    the models I've tried) still can't touch SLR AF. So if you need to shoot
    moving subjects you are better served by an SLR. Likewise with low
    lighting situations where the larger sensors offer a huge advantage.
    Combine the two, and you get high school football at night, where you
    have action plus crap lighting. Luckily, I'm done with that!

    Anyway, the FZ35 will see a lot of action this summer, for sure. Besides
    the nice lens, the small size makes it a perfect "bike bag" camera. I
    can grab it from the pouch and shoot while riding so the group doesn't
    have to stop while I screw around with a camera. Works well this way, too!
    Bowser, May 10, 2011
  15. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    That's changing, though not as rapidly as I thought.

    The Panasonic LUMIX DMC-GH2 has an ultra-fast contrast-detect AF
    system that would shame most of today's DSLRs. It is fast, decisive
    and extremely accurate - the latter cannot be truthfully said of many
    DSLRs' phase-detect systems, which tend to have systematic errors.

    The same system is also used in a Ricoh P&S camera. I had expected
    that it would quickly gain wide acceptance and be offered in many new
    digital cameras this year, but I was wrong. Only these two cameras
    offer it at this time.
    Bruce, May 11, 2011
  16. I doubt that. See how many people use their mobile phone camera
    and are happy enough with it --- happy enough to use it and
    not carry another camera with them for most of the time. So I
    respectfully submit that the humble mobile phone camera satisfies
    the need of more people than the superzoom.
    The camera phone is always with you, small and usually really
    simple. Even a P&S cannot beat that.
    Again I disagree. See above. Camera users happen to include
    mobile phone camera users.
    "Very few" people are professional photographers, who also
    need the image quality under iffy conditions and MPix
    DSLRs can offer. Amateurs by definition do not *need*
    cameras, they can just find another hobby.
    That would depend on why people who don't "need" a DSLR buy a DSLR.

    Wolfgang Weisselberg, May 11, 2011
  17. It'd better be.
    Dpreview, while impressed (for a CDAF), doesn't think the AF
    "would shame most of today's DSLRs" ... I read there that
    they'd prefer a DSLR for fast action.

    I'd like to see tests in bad conditions (low light, low contrast,
    both, etc.) with reliable numbers for from misfocussed to shot
    There are also systematic errors in sensor mountings, lens mounts
    and lenses --- guess how many lenses are actually 100% parallel
    to the sensor. Most PDAFs function very well, thank you.

    Wolfgang Weisselberg, May 11, 2011
  18. I love mine too, and the FZ100 even more so.

    Neither is nearly the equal of a DSLR, but when you need a superzoom and can
    live with lower ISOs and the usual EVF shortcomings, these little Panasonics
    are great.
    Neil Harrington, May 12, 2011
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