Recording from a remote, mounted camera

Hi, all. Please forgive me for what is probably a newbie question.
I've never had a camcorder before, so I'm rapidly trying to get up to
speed so I can help with this project.

Our church would like to mount a camera on the wall about 25 feet up
(making it inaccessible on a day-to-day basis). What we would ideally
like to do is this:

1) Have some way to remote power on/off the camera (which I think some
of our electrical guys can do)
2) Have the camera start recording as soon as it's on, if possible, and
3) Have the camera "record", not by recording the data on a MiniDV, Hi8
tape or anything like that, but by sending the data out its Firewire
port in real-time. The other end of the Firewire cable would be plugged
into a DVD Recorder (possibly in a PC, but also possibly a standalone
unit) which would burn the DVD live as the data is fed to it.

Can anyone tell me if this is possible? Particularly #3 - that's mainly
what I'm not sure about. It doesn't do us any good to have the data
recorded to a tape that's 25 feet above us - it has to have a way of
sending that data to a recorder on the ground in real-time.

Thanks very much to anyone who has any suggestions!

 

So you don't want a camcorder. You just want a camera. Run a power
cable to it. run a signal cable (probably a co-axial, similar to tv
aerial cable) from it. When you turn power on, the camera will start
sending a picture down the cable. It won't be Firewire, but it will
be recordable.

 

You can certainly just plug the AC adapter into a
switched wall-socket. However, note that not all
consumer camcorders respond as you would like
when their external power is removed/restored.
The camcorder may not come back to life in the
mode you would need. Suggest trying it with the
specific camcorder before commiting to doing this.

If you aren't recording IN the camcorder, this isn't really a
camcorder issue, but something to be arranged elsewhere
with the recording scheme.

If you are saying that you want to have the system just start
recording when you flip the switch, you will need to find a
DVD recorder that has the "start recording on power-up"
feature. This may not be the kind of thing you can find at
Target or WalMart. Furthermore, lots of DVD recorders
may not like having their power removed either. They may
come up in a mode demanding that their clock be set or
something, before being ready to record video. Or they
may default to "Channel 2" or some other undesirable trait.

Many (most?) D8/DV camcorders will feed live video out
through the Firewire port, as long as there isn't a tape in the
camcorder. (The tape will cause most camcorders to shut
down after a few minutes if you aren't recording on the
camcorder.)

Arranging a simple and foolproof "just flip the switch" setup
would be even more problematic with a computer vs. a
standlone DVD recorder.

Your scenario is likely feasable, but not with just any random
camcorder and DVD recorder. I'd try everything playing together
(including the 25-ft Firewire cable) before committing anything.

Hope you're planning on getting the audio from the PA
system or something. Back on the wall will sound horrible.

 

First of all, covering the powering and switching on of the camcorder.

If you ensure that there's no tape in the camcorder, then in the Standby
setting you'll get a video and audio feed from it (you don't have to
switch to record. So leaving the camcorder in Standby mode will allow
you to power-up and power-down via a mains feed to the camcorder PSU.

Turning to the connection of video (and audio):

Firewire connection has a physical limit of 4.5m, so this doesn't meet
your 25' requirement.

If your DVD recorder has a USB connection, then that is an alternative.
However, although USB has a 5m connection limit, this can be extended by
using a powered USB hub, so you'd get 5m + 5m which would meet your 25'
requirement.

You could use s-video + audio, or composite video (providing your DVD
recorder accepts these) though IMO there might be a slight loss of
quality at 25'. You can't get s-video cables longer than about 3m. Going
for the other composite option seems to me the best solution. You could
use RCA connections, again depending on whether your DVD recorder
accepts these as inputs. I'd be inclined to try and use a Sony camcorder
that offers a 4-pole 3.5mm socket-jack output. If Sony, get hold of some
4-way cable and a 4-pole 3.5mm socket and jack to connect (a 1m 4-pole
jack to 3x RCA connector is supplied with Sony miniDV camcorders).

You could of course go for an industrial video camera but I believe that
to get the resolution you'd be paying as much or more than a low-end
miniDV camcorder. If quality is not an issue, then the really cheap
option is to use one of the cheapie webcams with USB and a powered hub
to extend the range - again this is dependant on the DVD recorder
accepting USB input.

Plugs/jacks and cable (mentioned above) is inexpensive and can be
obtained from Maplins - but you'll need someone handy with a soldering
iron.

A point worth mentioning, is that if a tape is left in the camcorder,
the camcorder will switch from Standby to Off after about 5 minutes -
though you shouldn't be using a tape.

 

In message <dbp13n$mii$>, Richard Crowley

Snipped...

I don't think they do. You'll only get a video feed via firewire if the
remote device sends a control signal down the wire. Maybe some DVD
recorders do send a control signal - but I'm not sure here. I suspect
that the DVD recorder would simply send the command to start the
camcorder tape transport in the same way that a video editor (on
capture) operates. With no tape to be run, I suspect that the camcorder
would immediately send an "abort" back to the DVD recorder (in the same
manner that "end-of-tape" sends an abort back to video editor (on
capture)). Further, I'd guess that the abort would switch the DVD
recorder off it's record mode.

Anyway, as I pointed out elsewhere - firewire is out of the question
because of the 4.5m limit when the poster wants 25'. Timing goes to hell
and back with firewire cables over the 4.5m limit - that's why the spec
limits it to this figure.

George doesn't need to switch the camcorder to Record at any time, since
the video feed (via USB, s-video and composite) is output when on
Standby. As you've suggested, the camcorder won't go from Standby to Off
if there is no tape in the camcorder.

 

You keep coming out with this crap Morgan....

http://www.datavideo.info/products/dvcablesrep.htm

Care to explain how people like the above seem to have got it all so
wrong....

 

Before this descends into the usual Tony/Jerry slanging match, Tony is party
right, the original spec for ieee 1394 was a recommended maximum of 4.5m. In
reality, this could be extended to around 10m. However, upgrades to that spec
now allow up to 100m with the correct cables.

With regard to the output from the firewire port, AIUI that the firewire port on
many sony cameras is live. Certainly, from the PDX10p upwards this is the case.

regards

Stuart

www.mckears.com

 

<QUOTE FROM THE IEEE1394 SPECIFICATION>
Up to 63 IEEE 1394 devices may be connected to a bus segment. Each
device may be up to 4.5 meters apart.
</QUOTE FROM THE IEEE1394 SPECIFICATION>

Ever tried obtaining a Firewire cable longer than 4.5m?

No, I didn't think so.

 

STOP IT!

He doesn't need a camcorder. Let's concentrate on discovering what
quality is required, and finding him a camera that does it.

 

Try googling for firewire cable 10m

regards

Stuart

www.mckears.com

 

Wireless

 

i agree he doesn't need a camcorder there. particularly if it's
alocked-down shot like a sermon at the pulpit, the best deal would be
to get a small camera and appropriate lens from a place like
supercircuits.com.

That can run composite or s-video to whatever pre-programmed recording
device he wants, and the camera could be put on a power timer.

Another option is a webcam, run to a laptop or used PC. I know, you
hear "webcam" and "security cam" and you cringe about quality. I used
to as well, but if you've ever seen an Axis brand webcam, the picture
is remarkable. And really, at this end of the scale, the real item
that controls quality is the quality of the lens you use. These cameras
allow you to pick the camera body and lens as matched parts for the
task.

 

Or, more specifically, WiFi "IP-cams"?

 

2.4 Ghz

 

Having reached for and read through the Standards, Jerry is perhaps
referring to IEEE 1394b.

Unfortunately, this standard is not backward-compatible for the
following reasons:

1. IEEE 1394b is intended for an optical communication medium.

2. IEEE 1394b uses an 8B10B encoding method. This allows each
of the 256 possible 8-bit words to be encoded in two different
ways, one the bit-wise inverse of the other, and the data stream
alternates between one and the other.

I'm not suggesting that the IEEE 1394b standard *won't* be implemented
in video applications some time in the future - but it's certainly a
long way away in the consumer market, not only due to the backward
compatibility issue but because it has to be implemented in hardware
using look-up tables.

So what I mentioned in regard link-length in response to George's issue
holds true.

 

Care to be a bit more specific?

 

I hit send to soon sorry. I use a wireless uhf modulator that transmits on
a tunable range. I have no data on this device as it is at least 20 years
old. These and others are available via search. I use programmable remote
control to activate camera using a timer set at regular time. This among
other cameras and combinations are plenty. I have old 8mm and HI-8 cameras
mounted in various places along with simple radioshack motion detector
camera and wireless all recording to a HDD. If you want to record directly
to a DVD burner this can be done with universal remote activation.

HTH
AJ.

 

Are there any about (at reasonable cost) ?

Far more relevant is the question - does anyone know of any DVD recorder
that supports 2.4Ghz wireless?

 

Best for your purpose is a fixed camera - not camcorder - with
composite signal to a dvd recorder.

You would want to grab the audio from your public address system , or
add a microphone (possibly wireless to the person speaking.

 

You are right about that. I just used much of what I already had. The old
camcorders I use are stationary and send a signal to a HDD. I will be
building remote tilt and pan rather than purchase commercial.

AJ.