Regarding WebTv, Image Magick, and certain uneducated PC snobs

Discussion in 'Photoshop' started by Post Toasties, Feb 1, 2007.

  1. WebTV should never have been let outside the

    I realize the above comments were made by an ignorant troll, but for the
    open-minded folks with a brain who might appreciate some insight from
    one experienced with WebTv, Image Magick, computers, and Photoshop, I am
    compelled to address the subject.

    WebTV, now known as MSNTV, is a set-top appliance for surfing the
    internet using a dial-up connection and your TV. Among other things, it
    includes a newsgroup reader for accessing both Usenet groups and
    WebTv-only groups. WebTv uses a remote, very much like a TV remote, and
    a wireless keyboard. This means you can browse the internet on your 50"
    set in the living room while comfortably sprawled on your couch across
    the room. This comfort factor is one reason of several why I choose to
    do my group reading from my WebTv rather than from my computer.

    It sickens me that there are people out there who would discount
    anything I had to say or ridicule me simply because my header shows I'm
    posting from a Webtv. Being aware of this bias, I rarely come out of
    lurking to post, but tonight I'm adding my two cents.

    WebTv doesn't have a harddrive, hence no ability to download or run
    programs of any sort. If you want to do anything - even something as
    simple as change text color in an email - you need to learn how to do it
    yourself without benefit of a program to do it for you. Because of this,
    a good lot of folks born & bred on WebTv have developed skills - like
    coding a webpage from scratch - that many pc-only people don't have
    because they never needed to learn them.

    Working with images is as popular with WebTv users as with PC users.
    Image Magick is the on-line program most popular for that. Many
    WebTv'ers have mastered IM & the images they can output with it are very
    impressive given its limatations.

    I have a computer and working in Photoshop has become my favorite hobby.
    Of course it can do far more than IM, but one works with the tools
    available to them - 'tis not right to get on a high-horse and put down
    others for doing the best they can with what they have available.
    Nor is it right to make assumptions based on someone's posting addy.
    There is more than one way to skin a cat, and there's more than one way
    to access Usenet groups.

    Post Toasties, Feb 1, 2007
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  2. Post Toasties

    Voivod Guest

    Didn't you storm off in a tantrum crying that you'd never return?
    Yes, you've just accurately described a toy.
    As if you're capable of understanding a computer, or even own one. If
    you had one why didn't you just do your own graphics work on that?
    You over value your opinion.
    OOoOoo basic HTML skills.... I'm impressed!
    So then why did you ask people to do a very simple job for you?
    So... you're into torturing animals?
    Voivod, Feb 1, 2007
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  3. Post Toasties

    Roy G Guest

    All very good, etc.


    Do remember this is a Photoshop Group, not an Imagemagick Group.

    The moron who made the first posting was not asking for advice he was asking
    someone to do it for him.

    When surprise, surprise, no-one replied, he then made another post to
    complain about being ignored.

    What did he expect ??? Sweetness and Light ???

    He then responded in an even more petulant way.

    He deserves everything he got, and indeed should consider himself lucky that
    it stayed as moderate as it did.

    Roy G
    Roy G, Feb 1, 2007
  4. Post Toasties

    Fat Sam Guest

    That was the sound of you missing the point and it flying straight past you.
    Admittedly, a few small minded people launched into a diatribe about web-tv,
    but to most people it simply wasn't an issue in Arthur Reilly's post.
    Most people took exception to the fact that he expected people to do his
    work for him for free.
    When he asked for that, he simply got ignored, and that's where it would
    have ended if he'd been grown-up enough to let it lie, but he wasn't and
    Instead he came back in again and felt the need to cry about it and have a
    go at everyone for having teh audacity to ignore him.
    That's when he got people's heckles up.
    Fat Sam, Feb 1, 2007
  5. Do remember this is a Photoshop Group,

    Yes, of course. There are PS groups about though that are centered on
    actually working on other's images, presumably so the poster can learn
    the technique the contributor used, but there are some folks who post
    images with no intention of learning, they just want this or that done
    for them. Even so,many still work on the image for their own reasons,
    not caring or expecting payment from the person who requested it.
    The OP here obviously posted in the wrong type of group but that doesn't
    merit the responses he got.

    He wasn't asking for someone to recreate the Sistine Chapel for him, he
    only wanted two dots! Geesh. Would it have been so hard to give him the
    dots but politely explain this is a group for discussing PS techniques,
    it's not an imaging group, so go elsewhere for future requests?

    Colliope .com, Feb 1, 2007
  6. Because of this, a good lot of folks born &
    I made my entire website from scratch, on WebTv. How many pc-only people
    do you know who could do that without using FrontPage or some other
    canned page maker/editor?

    If it makes you feel good knocking something you obviously have no
    personal experience with and don't know a thing about it, then by all
    means, continue showing your ignorance by doing so..

    Colliope .com, Feb 1, 2007
  7. Post Toasties

    Voivod Guest

    I've coded every web page I've ever made over the last 10 years by hand
    in Notepad. Big whoop. I'm not impressed. It's HTML for shit's sake, I
    could teach a baboon to code HTML pages.
    And you keep using your $200 toy while I keep laughing at you.
    Voivod, Feb 1, 2007
  8. Post Toasties

    Roy G Guest

    I think you should read the original posts.

    You appear to be missing out those parts which do not suit your argument.

    The OP did NOT get any resposes whatsoever to his original posting. No-one
    said ANYTHING to him.

    He then provoked some responses by posting his complaint. As I said
    earlier, "What did he expect".

    I replied -

    The next, thing he is attempting to belittle me because I had never heard of
    his crappy non-program. He is Bloody lucky that I somehow managed to
    control my temper and only replied slightly sharply.

    You are now doing the same thing, and I would suggest you go away and play
    with your toys before someone starts throwing the Sh-1-T. at you.

    Roy G
    Roy G, Feb 1, 2007
  9. Which any PC'er or MAC'ie can do for far less than the cost of a basic MSNTV
    (as with you running two 'systems'), let alone the 'service' fees! Note that
    MissieTV doesn't disclose the fees on the sales site - it's a GOTCHA !!!

    Until I moved (not set up fully yet) I used a 108" screen for my games and
    some browsing, but used a recliner, not the couch! <G>

    Though I rarely agree with the trolls, MSNTV is a toy, it's been a toy, it
    will remain a toy - and more expensive than it needs to be!

    For the price of a MissieBox, you can get a full computer and the cost to
    access the internet can be as little as 1/3rd of the MissieTV! What you save
    in under a year, from that alone, would pay for the output card/box to
    'watch' on your TV, but of course it will still be at TV resolution.

    An additional benefit would be that you could record your computer's screen
    to external tape or DVD (if you have them). Teaching tool or capture of,
    well, whatever!

    On the newer HD TV's, many are coming with a DB-15 input for computers - so
    even that card/box will be obviated.
    Sir F. A. Rien, Feb 1, 2007
  10. Though I rarely agree with the trolls, MSNTV is
    Have you ever used it? WebTv was designed to provide an inexpensive,
    uncomplicated, space saving way of accessing the internet and email. It
    was never intended to be all the things a computer is, but it is not a
    "toy". I do not understand why so many pc people enjoy bashing it and
    its users.

    Oh, c'mon - where can you get a pc for less than $200? The subscription,
    though, for WebTv IS expensive at $24.95 a month. If you chose to use
    your own ISP rather than the WebTv network, it drops to, I think $10.95.
    Most of the folks, like myself, who have a WebTv and then get a PC pay
    $0 for WebTV. They instead pay $15.95 for MSNIA on the pc, which
    includes free WebTv subscription. It's usually only after one wants to
    move on to a faster broadband connection that people drop MSNIA and thus
    give up the WebTv.

    Using the WebTv, you can capture still frames off of tv programs, VCR,
    or videocamera. You cannot however, record moving video - just still
    Going the other way, you can, if you've made your connections correctly,
    record your web session to the VCR.

    Anyways, I'm not trying to start a debate over WebTv vrs Computers;
    that's like comparing apples to oranges. I use both, I enjoy both, and
    I know the pros & cons of both. I simply object to folks making negative
    assumptions about those who use WebTvs.

    Post Toasties, Feb 1, 2007
  11. You appear to be missing out those parts which
    My only argument was that people went overboard when they did reply.

    If someone had politely repsonded to that, the second post & nasty
    responses wouldn't have come about.

    ?? How was I belittling you? People were saying "what is this Image
    Magick? I've never heard of it" and "I don't know what a WebTv is
    either".... I was attempting to explain, for those who might actually
    want to know, what they are and at the same time counter the misguided
    comments re the above by troll-vod.

    Post Toasties, Feb 1, 2007
  12. Bravo Post Toasties!

    It's about time some of the idiots on here got a bit of an education.

    One moron even thought that your posting was from me even though the
    name and e-mail address was different.

    I too enjoy laying back and surfing the web at home.

    I bought my Web TV just before the MSN 2 came out and only paid $49.00
    for it.

    If that's not a steal then I don't know what is.

    I think some of the responses you received along with one that I had
    gotten tells much about some photoshop users.


    "Go **** yourself with a chainsaw."

    Now words like that only show a total lack of class, education and

    Photoshop like many other Desktop applications are just software. I
    think some of these Photoshop users are trying to act like they're the
    second coming of Christ because they use Photoshop.

    They often call themselves Graphic Artists when what they have to say is
    so far removed from anything connected with the word "Artist".

    I've been a computer programmer since the 70's when most of these guys
    were either in diapers or waiting for their parents to meet.

    In other words, I could have written the very code that Photoshop runs

    Does that make me SPECIAL?

    Not at all.

    Unfortunately many of these guys apparently think they're special.

    I posted my original post on a couple of other discussion groups and not
    only did I get the graphics help I needed but many people even took the
    time to send me the very graphic I'd been looking for and were
    wonderfully friendly as well. I could have done it myself on a computer
    but was having trouble getting ImageMagick to get it just right and had
    wrongly assumed that a Photoshop user would have the answers.

    It's true that in my quick writing of my original post that I'd asked
    for the graphic as opposed to an explanation which is really what I'd
    been after. Even then, no one even provided a single HINT of how such a
    graphic could be done with Imagemagick but was told how worthless
    Imagemagick was compared to Photoshop. It's since become clear that
    probably no one here knew anymore about how to accomplish the graphic
    task using Imagemagick anymore than I did.

    The really funny part about all of this is the fact that the company I
    run employs at least two dozen graphic artists. Including branch
    offices throughout the world the number has to be in the hundreds.

    Had someone been nice enough to have acted very differently than they
    did, I would have considered setting up an interview.

    At my firm, many of the graphics artists make over $100.000 a year and
    the really talented ones who are involved with some of our more
    successful ad compaigns make more than triple that after bonuses are
    thrown in.

    So I think we've given some of these closed minded, low class and
    uneducated people much more time then they deserve.

    I'm sure there must be some really wonderful people on here that are
    very different from the posters to this topic.

    Unfortunately, with those same people having not stood up to express
    anything differently just shows a form of agreement.

    I won't be responding to any negative replies on this topic because I
    learned a long time ago.

    Arthur Reilly, Feb 1, 2007
  13. Post Toasties

    Voivod Guest

    Poor overly sensitive weebs. Are you ALL crybabies?
    So everyone in the group should have replied with a polite 'sorry, not
    doing your work for you'? or do we need a group spokesman to reply to
    all the idiots who ask for free graphics work? Why do you believe he
    deserved ANY reply at all?
    Go back to playing with your toy, you're out of your league on Usenet.
    Voivod, Feb 1, 2007
  14. Post Toasties

    Fat Sam Guest

    Me for one. Notepad is all you need to compile a website.
    HTML is piss easy, and definitely the simplest of all the languages used for
    web work. What is it about *knowing basic html* that you think makes a webTV
    user somehow superior?
    Try some scripting languages like ASP, PHP, Perl, and Javascript.
    Fat Sam, Feb 1, 2007
  15. Post Toasties

    Fat Sam Guest

    FrontPage does not make websites.
    It makes random collections of tags and code that sometimes, if you're
    lucky, renders itself correctly.
    FrontPage is a package used by people who are scared to try Geocities FFS.
    Fat Sam, Feb 1, 2007
  16. Post Toasties

    Fat Sam Guest

    Yes, you're demonstrating this point very clearly.
    Fat Sam, Feb 1, 2007
  17. Me for one. Notepad is all you need to compile
    That's not what I said. I said that because WebTv'ers have no choice but
    to learn they often know more about page coding than your average pc
    user, not because pc users are "inferior", but because pc users have
    programs at their disposal to do the work for them - they don't ever
    need to learn to do things from scratch unless they want to.

    On Webtv, if one wants to do something as simple as change the text
    color of their email, they need to learn basic html to do that. Once
    they get started - out of neccessity - they continue out of fun, and
    often move on to putting their growing knowlege to work on a webpage. PC
    users who can simply click on font color in their email program to
    change it have no reason to get started with HTML unless they want to,
    and since they have a PC, if they do decide they want to make a page,
    the first thing they're going to do is look for a program to help them
    along. That's not saying PC users are inferior or stupid, but what it is
    saying is that WebTv users deserve more respect than they get. We are
    not a stupid bunch; we are resourceful out of necessity and that takes

    I've dabbled with PHP & Javascript. However, my pursuit of that hobby -
    that originated with needing to learn html on the WebTv - fell by the
    wayside when I got into digital photography and Photoshop.

    Post Toasties, Feb 1, 2007
  18. Post Toasties

    Voivod Guest

    Get a room.
    An education about your toys? Who gives a shit?
    One weeb's as worthless as the nest.
    Can't handle a PC. huh?
    So not only is it a toy it's an antiquated obsolete toy. Bravo!
    You don't know what is. It's obvious. You don't need to make an issue of
    If you're going to quote someone, Shitlips, get it right. I said, and I
    quote: "Kindly **** yourself anally with a chainsaw, thanks."
    Didn't you run off with your tail between your legs claiming you'd never

    Message-ID: <>
    "This will be my last posting on here."

    Why yes, you did.
    Actually they're acting like professionals who had an idiot jump in and
    ask for free work. How often do you ask your doctor for a free checkup?
    When was the last time you got gas and exepected it to be free?
    (providing you're old enough to have a driver's license.)
    You can't discern the difference between words and deeds?
    Just stop lying.
    Please, I'm going to hurt myself laughing.
    Hey! You got something right!
    I am special.
    You wrongly assumed people would do it for free for a newbie.
    Probably because no one here after spending $600 for Photoshop is going
    to bother to use some crapware program. Hey, what's the proper timing
    for a 1968 Toronado with the California 455 V8? What? WHY don't you
    The company you run has graphic artists and yet you felt the need to
    post your request to multiple groups? Damn, man, STOP lying.
    You're just so full of shit. An interview for making two colored
    Anyone got a shovel? The bullshit's getting knee deep around here.
    So leave, no one is making you read the group. Hell, you said you were
    leaving and never coming back.
    So everyone's bad because they didn't leap to some moron's defense?
    That's why you're responding, right. You can't even lie with any skill.
    But it's fun to taunt one.
    Voivod, Feb 1, 2007
  19. Post Toasties

    Fat Sam Guest

    You imply sarcasm or disbelief.
    Pray tell, which markup language is simpler than HTML?
    It's the base standard for internet documents. It literally doesn't get any
    simpler unless your server is just delivering TXT documents. But then that
    isn't actually *markup*. It's just displaying the contents of a text
    Web TV users can use online site-building tools like those found at
    Geocities and other locations if they want a wysiwig environment. Just the
    same as they can use online graphics editing tools like ImageMagick.
    Why? Can a webTV user not use Hotmail or Yahoo mail?
    Only if they have the software that allows them to do that.
    There are as many PC users who code all their websites using Notepad (a
    plain text editor which requires the user to have a full knowledge of the
    markp language they're using).
    Thats reather a sweeping statement. I take exception at your generalisation.
    I have no problem with WebTV users. You use whatever tool best suits your
    needs to access the net.
    If it's a set top TV box, then so be it. If it displays the pages that are
    on the internet and renders them correctly according to the W3C standards,
    then it does the job that it was intended for.
    To knock it would be exactly the same as knocking people who access the net
    on a mobile phone, PDA, or one of those internet booths that you find in
    motorway service stations.
    It is merely a tool, and if it performs the tasks you require of it, then it
    is a tool which works well. End of story.
    My only gripe with WebTV users is that they seem to have a minor chip on
    their shoulders. An inferiority complex if you will. Perhaps it's justified
    after seeing some of the derogatory posts in these threads, I really can't
    say for sure. But it seems to me like WebTV users fall into the same
    category as Linux users. By that I mean, they constantly feel the need to
    justify their chosen IT tool, even though there really is no reason to do
    Fat Sam, Feb 1, 2007
  20. Post Toasties

    Papa Joe Guest

    Web TV is not a computer hooked to the internet. It's a way to do a few
    basic things on the internet with a TV. That's it. In about 5 years
    most small handheld devices will surpase what web TV can offer.

    If you like to see a web site on a TV you can easily set up a secondary
    or even your primary monitor to an LCD TV. I'd go as far to boldly say
    that you have no idea on how to do this... and that's because your a
    novice at computers at best. There are no professional web designers
    working with Web TV. there are no video editors working with web TV. NO
    musicians. No programmers. No one that had any experience whatsoever
    with digital media would buy into such a useless tool. Please stop
    wondering about this and classify yourself a newbie at technology plain
    and simple.

    As to your comment about html coding, a lot of us started in the early
    90's coding with notepad and ising bitmap images, but once professional
    programs like dreamweaver and go live surfaces...why bother? We can
    always look or hack the code the software builds if we don't like it.
    You're talking about HTML code. The most basic code on a computer next
    to "basic code" in the 90's.

    Keep using Web TV but don't think it's anything but a joytoy with
    little experience required. I'd go so far as to say my Home theater set
    has as much of a learning curve.
    Papa Joe, Feb 1, 2007
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