Remove battery when camera not in use?

Discussion in 'Photography' started by Higgs Boson, Jun 16, 2013.

  1. Higgs Boson

    Higgs Boson Guest

    I've heard that it's good to remove or disable the battery when camera will not be used for a [long] while.

    Does this apply to my little Canon point&shoot?

    What do they mean by a "long" while?

    TIA

    HB
     
    Higgs Boson, Jun 16, 2013
    #1
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  2. Higgs Boson

    Robert Coe Guest

    On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:51:45 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson <>
    wrote:
    : I've heard that it's good to remove or disable the battery when camera
    : will not be used for a [long] while.

    In general, a battery loses its charge slightly faster in the camera than out.
    Whether that matters depends on how you use the camera. Note that if you leave
    the camera with no battery in it, you risk running down the little battery
    that maintains the date and time. If that battery isn't rechargeable, you may
    have to change it out sooner.

    : Does this apply to my little Canon point&shoot?

    There may be exceptions, but it's reasonable to assume that it applies to all
    cameras.

    : What do they mean by a "long" while?

    Weeks or months.

    This question gets discussed almost every time we run out of other topics.
    Cameras and batteries differ, so there's no definitive answer. The best advice
    is to leave a battery in the camera all the time (so that the camera is
    available when you need it), but rotate in a freshly charged spare every few
    weeks. And when you do, make sure that both batteries are in good condition. A
    battery that leaks can cause expensive damage to a camera.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Jun 16, 2013
    #2
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  3. "Higgs Boson" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I've heard that it's good to remove or disable the battery when camera
    > will not be used for a [long] while.
    >
    > Does this apply to my little Canon point&shoot?
    >
    > What do they mean by a "long" while?


    Micro-capacitors in electronics can become damaged if they're fully
    discharged. The same is also true of rechargeable batteries.

    I'm not sure but I think newer electronic stuff has a trickle fed on/off
    switch causing a circuit so leaving a battery in will eventually drain
    everything. I guess that's why they recommend removing batteries.

    A maintenance schedule every 3-6 or even 12 months should keep everything
    tip top. I read someone's experience of older electronics was more touchy so
    their camera needed a maintenance recharge every 3 months.

    I didn't bother much with this kind of thing until a cordless phone I stored
    in a warm cupboard went kaput. Lesson learned.

    --
    Charles E. Hardwidge
     
    Charles E. Hardwidge, Jun 16, 2013
    #3
  4. Higgs Boson

    Alan Browne Guest

    On 2013.06.16 03:51 , Higgs Boson wrote:
    > I've heard that it's good to remove or disable the battery when camera will not be used for a [long] while.



    The CW on Li-ion is charge full, then use the device until about half
    discharged. Not sure they 'have' to be removed - I certainly wouldn't
    worry about it. The best place to store it (protect it) may indeed be
    in the camera).

    (Someone posted a differing camera manual instruction wrt to storage
    charge level for Li-ion around here some months ago).

    Ni-MH - I don't believe there is desired charge point for storage and
    they will self discharge over time in any case. Ni-MH should be stored
    with the positive terminal up so that gases can escape (if any) - I
    don't know if this applies anymore with more recent Ni-MH's.

    Eneloope's (BTW) don't self-discharge much during storage (if you happen
    to be in the market...

    Alkaline batteries definitely need to be removed from devices not in use
    for long periods.

    > Does this apply to my little Canon point&shoot?


    Any device - and often the camera manual will advise.


    --
    "A Canadian is someone who knows how to have sex in a canoe."
    -Pierre Berton
     
    Alan Browne, Jun 16, 2013
    #4
  5. Higgs Boson

    Alan Browne Guest

    On 2013.06.16 03:51 , Higgs Boson wrote:

    > What do they mean by a "long" while?


    Several months or more.


    --
    "A Canadian is someone who knows how to have sex in a canoe."
    -Pierre Berton
     
    Alan Browne, Jun 16, 2013
    #5
  6. Higgs Boson

    rickman Guest

    On 6/16/2013 10:45 AM, Charles E. Hardwidge wrote:
    > "Higgs Boson" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> I've heard that it's good to remove or disable the battery when camera
    >> will not be used for a [long] while.
    >>
    >> Does this apply to my little Canon point&shoot?
    >>
    >> What do they mean by a "long" while?

    >
    > Micro-capacitors in electronics can become damaged if they're fully
    > discharged.


    Can you explain what you mean by "micro-capacitors"?

    --

    Rick
     
    rickman, Jun 22, 2013
    #6
  7. Higgs Boson

    Savageduck Guest

    On 2013-06-21 20:17:49 -0700, rickman <> said:

    > On 6/16/2013 10:45 AM, Charles E. Hardwidge wrote:
    >> "Higgs Boson" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> I've heard that it's good to remove or disable the battery when camera
    >>> will not be used for a [long] while.
    >>>
    >>> Does this apply to my little Canon point&shoot?
    >>>
    >>> What do they mean by a "long" while?

    >>
    >> Micro-capacitors in electronics can become damaged if they're fully
    >> discharged.

    >
    > Can you explain what you mean by "micro-capacitors"?


    He was going to tell you that they are teeny-weeny capacitors.

    However, this might get you a more succinct answer:
    < http://bit.ly/11tM43e >


    --
    Regards,

    Savageduck
     
    Savageduck, Jun 22, 2013
    #7
  8. Higgs Boson

    rickman Guest

    On 6/22/2013 12:41 AM, Savageduck wrote:
    > On 2013-06-21 20:17:49 -0700, rickman <> said:
    >
    >> On 6/16/2013 10:45 AM, Charles E. Hardwidge wrote:
    >>> "Higgs Boson" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:...
    >>>> I've heard that it's good to remove or disable the battery when camera
    >>>> will not be used for a [long] while.
    >>>>
    >>>> Does this apply to my little Canon point&shoot?
    >>>>
    >>>> What do they mean by a "long" while?
    >>>
    >>> Micro-capacitors in electronics can become damaged if they're fully
    >>> discharged.

    >>
    >> Can you explain what you mean by "micro-capacitors"?

    >
    > He was going to tell you that they are teeny-weeny capacitors.
    >
    > However, this might get you a more succinct answer:
    > < http://bit.ly/11tM43e >


    Nope, that didn't give me the answer I asked for at all. Did you
    actually read what I asked? Last time I checked, Google can't read
    people's minds.

    --

    Rick
     
    rickman, Jun 22, 2013
    #8
  9. "rickman" <> wrote in message
    news:kq34nr$jdq$...
    > On 6/16/2013 10:45 AM, Charles E. Hardwidge wrote:
    >> "Higgs Boson" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> I've heard that it's good to remove or disable the battery when camera
    >>> will not be used for a [long] while.
    >>>
    >>> Does this apply to my little Canon point&shoot?
    >>>
    >>> What do they mean by a "long" while?

    >>
    >> Micro-capacitors in electronics can become damaged if they're fully
    >> discharged.

    >
    > Can you explain what you mean by "micro-capacitors"?


    I was getting type and capacity mixed up.

    SMT (Surface Mounted Technology) capacitors. There's some pictures after the
    link.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-mount_technology

    --
    Charles E. Hardwidge
     
    Charles E. Hardwidge, Jun 22, 2013
    #9
  10. On Sat 22 Jun 2013 12:41, Savageduck wrote:
    > On 2013-06-21 20:17:49 -0700, rickman <> said:
    >
    >> On 6/16/2013 10:45 AM, Charles E. Hardwidge wrote:
    >>> "Higgs Boson" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:...
    >>>> I've heard that it's good to remove or disable the battery when camera
    >>>> will not be used for a [long] while.
    >>>>
    >>>> Does this apply to my little Canon point&shoot?
    >>>>
    >>>> What do they mean by a "long" while?
    >>>
    >>> Micro-capacitors in electronics can become damaged if they're fully
    >>> discharged.

    >>
    >> Can you explain what you mean by "micro-capacitors"?

    >
    > He was going to tell you that they are teeny-weeny capacitors.
    >
    > However, this might get you a more succinct answer:
    > < http://bit.ly/11tM43e >
    >
    >


    (-:

    --

    Paul Rooney
     
    PAUL {HAMILTON} ROONEY, Jun 22, 2013
    #10
  11. Higgs Boson

    rickman Guest

    On 6/22/2013 1:52 AM, Charles E. Hardwidge wrote:
    >
    > "rickman" <> wrote in message
    > news:kq34nr$jdq$...
    >> On 6/16/2013 10:45 AM, Charles E. Hardwidge wrote:
    >>> "Higgs Boson" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:...
    >>>> I've heard that it's good to remove or disable the battery when camera
    >>>> will not be used for a [long] while.
    >>>>
    >>>> Does this apply to my little Canon point&shoot?
    >>>>
    >>>> What do they mean by a "long" while?
    >>>
    >>> Micro-capacitors in electronics can become damaged if they're fully
    >>> discharged.

    >>
    >> Can you explain what you mean by "micro-capacitors"?

    >
    > I was getting type and capacity mixed up.
    >
    > SMT (Surface Mounted Technology) capacitors. There's some pictures after
    > the
    > link.
    >
    > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-mount_technology


    Can you explain why you think that they would be damaged if they are
    "fully discharged"?

    --

    Rick
     
    rickman, Jun 26, 2013
    #11
  12. "rickman" <> wrote in message
    news:kqdhsm$fgd$...

    > Can you explain why you think that they would be damaged if they are
    > "fully discharged"?


    Capacitors can go wonky and leak.

    --
    Charles E. Hardwidge
     
    Charles E. Hardwidge, Jun 26, 2013
    #12
  13. On Thu 27 Jun 2013 01:42, Charles E. Hardwidge wrote:
    >
    > "rickman" <> wrote in message
    > news:kqdhsm$fgd$...
    >
    >> Can you explain why you think that they would be damaged if they are
    >> "fully discharged"?

    >
    > Capacitors can go wonky and leak.
    >


    As can the best of us.

    --

    Paul Rooney
     
    PAUL {HAMILTON} ROONEY, Jun 27, 2013
    #13
  14. "Charles E. Hardwidge" <> wrote:
    >"rickman" <> wrote in message
    >news:kqdhsm$fgd$...
    >
    >> Can you explain why you think that they would be
    >> damaged if they are "fully discharged"?

    >
    >Capacitors can go wonky and leak.


    Ran out of buzz words?

    The term "micro-capacitors" has no specific meaning.
    And SMT references only the method for mounting and
    making electrical connections. "Leak" is a valid term
    for capacitors that cannot hold a charge (i.e., they
    become fully discharged on their own sooner than they
    should), but is not a cause so much as an effect. Of
    course "wonky" is another totally meaningless term

    Virtually all capacitors are manufactured and shipped
    fully discharged. Matter of fact many of them come with
    the leads shorted to purposely be sure that they are
    fully discharged.

    --
    Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
    Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
     
    Floyd L. Davidson, Jun 27, 2013
    #14
  15. Higgs Boson

    rickman Guest

    On 6/27/2013 9:13 AM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
    > "Charles E. Hardwidge"<> wrote:
    >> "rickman"<> wrote in message
    >> news:kqdhsm$fgd$...
    >>
    >>> Can you explain why you think that they would be
    >>> damaged if they are "fully discharged"?

    >>
    >> Capacitors can go wonky and leak.

    >
    > Ran out of buzz words?
    >
    > The term "micro-capacitors" has no specific meaning.
    > And SMT references only the method for mounting and
    > making electrical connections. "Leak" is a valid term
    > for capacitors that cannot hold a charge (i.e., they
    > become fully discharged on their own sooner than they
    > should), but is not a cause so much as an effect. Of
    > course "wonky" is another totally meaningless term
    >
    > Virtually all capacitors are manufactured and shipped
    > fully discharged. Matter of fact many of them come with
    > the leads shorted to purposely be sure that they are
    > fully discharged.


    That is where I was going with this. I think someone was confusing
    capacitors with batteries. Batteries can be sensitive little critters
    which don't like to be over charged or drained too far. Some don't like
    topping off while others prefer that to a full discharge. Some don't
    like sitting around with little charge on them and that, I expect, is
    what was triggering this idea that caps don't like being discharged.

    Capacitors are not at all like batteries. They don't care a hoot about
    their state of charge other than being charged above their rated voltage
    which can do damage. In fact, many "micro-capacitors" don't even have
    the exact same properties when charged as opposed to when discharged.
    That is, the measured capacitance will vary with the DC voltage on them.

    While capacitors can have their peculiarities, none that I have seen
    have any tendency to "go wonky" or leak when discharged fully or
    partially. In fact, it would be very hard to prevent a capacitor from
    being fully discharged.

    --

    Rick
     
    rickman, Jun 27, 2013
    #15
  16. "rickman" <> wrote in message
    news:kqhorh$d6b$...

    > That is where I was going with this. I think someone was confusing
    > capacitors with batteries. Batteries can be sensitive little critters
    > which don't like to be over charged or drained too far. Some don't like
    > topping off while others prefer that to a full discharge. Some don't like
    > sitting around with little charge on them and that, I expect, is what was
    > triggering this idea that caps don't like being discharged.


    Then why not explain yourself instead of wasting people's time? (I do know
    the difference between a capacitor and battery. Thank you.)

    Sorry but I had this happen to me with a cordless phone. (While the handset
    was in storage the handset died completely and a new battery didn't work.) I
    also picked up the info off Kirk Tuck's blog. He experienced his old Kodak
    DSLR going dead in the same way. It wasn't the battery and someone else
    provided a thorough answer why some types of capacitors go bad.

    I'm not sure what pisses me off most. Being treated like an idiot or people
    assuming they know everything. I was only trying to help, okay? Next time if
    you're so smart find someone else...

    --
    Charles E. Hardwidge
     
    Charles E. Hardwidge, Jun 27, 2013
    #16
  17. "Charles E. Hardwidge" <> wrote:
    >"rickman" <> wrote in message
    >news:kqhorh$d6b$...
    >
    >> That is where I was going with this. I think someone was confusing
    >> capacitors with batteries. Batteries can be sensitive little critters
    >> which don't like to be over charged or drained too far. Some don't like
    >> topping off while others prefer that to a full discharge. Some don't like
    >> sitting around with little charge on them and that, I expect, is what was
    >> triggering this idea that caps don't like being discharged.

    >
    >Then why not explain yourself instead of wasting people's time? (I do know
    >the difference between a capacitor and battery. Thank you.)
    >
    >Sorry but I had this happen to me with a cordless phone. (While the handset
    >was in storage the handset died completely and a new battery didn't work.) I
    >also picked up the info off Kirk Tuck's blog. He experienced his old Kodak
    >DSLR going dead in the same way. It wasn't the battery and someone else
    >provided a thorough answer why some types of capacitors go bad.


    Capacitors don't go bad due to being fully discharged.

    Ahem... do you realize that non-polarized capacitors
    are typically fully discharged up to at least millions
    of time per second during normal use? That's what
    happens when a capacitor passes an alternating current!

    >I'm not sure what pisses me off most. Being treated like an idiot or people
    >assuming they know everything. I was only trying to help, okay? Next time if
    >you're so smart find someone else...


    Nobody treated you like an idiot on this topic, though I
    will admit this particular post, like many others in the
    past, is probably sufficient cause...

    I'll note that you were trying to help, but did not bother
    to verify what you said. And that nobody went out to
    "find" you, you injected yourself.

    --
    Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
    Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
     
    Floyd L. Davidson, Jun 27, 2013
    #17
  18. Charles E. Hardwidge wrote:
    > "rickman" <> wrote in message
    > news:kqhorh$d6b$...
    >
    >> That is where I was going with this. I think someone was confusing
    >> capacitors with batteries. Batteries can be sensitive little critters
    >> which don't like to be over charged or drained too far. Some don't like
    >> topping off while others prefer that to a full discharge. Some don't
    >> like
    >> sitting around with little charge on them and that, I expect, is what was
    >> triggering this idea that caps don't like being discharged.

    >
    > Then why not explain yourself instead of wasting people's time? (I do know
    > the difference between a capacitor and battery. Thank you.)
    >
    > Sorry but I had this happen to me with a cordless phone. (While the handset
    > was in storage the handset died completely and a new battery didn't
    > work.) I
    > also picked up the info off Kirk Tuck's blog. He experienced his old Kodak
    > DSLR going dead in the same way. It wasn't the battery and someone else
    > provided a thorough answer why some types of capacitors go bad.
    >
    > I'm not sure what pisses me off most. Being treated like an idiot or people
    > assuming they know everything. I was only trying to help, okay? Next
    > time if
    > you're so smart find someone else...


    Micro electronics have not used wet electrolytics
    for about 5 years. The industry has migrated to ceramic
    for anything under about 220 mfd. Anything over that
    typically will use electrolyte washed tantalum caps.
    And those are mainly in power supplies.
    In either case, there is no chance of leakage and
    virtually no chance of part failure.
     
    Paul in Houston TX, Jun 27, 2013
    #18
  19. Higgs Boson

    BobA Guest

    In article <kqhv5h$jif$>,
    Paul in Houston TX <> wrote:
    > [ ... ]
    >Micro electronics have not used wet electrolytics
    >for about 5 years. The industry has migrated to ceramic
    >for anything under about 220 mfd. Anything over that
    >typically will use electrolyte washed tantalum caps.
    >And those are mainly in power supplies.
    >In either case, there is no chance of leakage and
    >virtually no chance of part failure.


    Just as an FYI, I have a fairly new Metz 58 AF-2 flash which
    has the following text near the end of the user manual (pg 145):

    [ ... ]
    22.3 Flash capacitor forming
    The flash capacitor built into the flash unit undergoes
    physical change if the unit is not switched on for a
    prolonged period. For this reason it is necessary to
    switch the unit on for approximately 10 minutes at least
    once every three months. [ ... ]

    what do you make of that?

    BobA
     
    BobA, Jun 27, 2013
    #19
  20. Higgs Boson

    rickman Guest

    On 6/27/2013 1:04 PM, Charles E. Hardwidge wrote:
    > "rickman" <> wrote in message
    > news:kqhorh$d6b$...
    >
    >> That is where I was going with this. I think someone was confusing
    >> capacitors with batteries. Batteries can be sensitive little critters
    >> which don't like to be over charged or drained too far. Some don't like
    >> topping off while others prefer that to a full discharge. Some don't like
    >> sitting around with little charge on them and that, I expect, is what was
    >> triggering this idea that caps don't like being discharged.

    >
    > Then why not explain yourself instead of wasting people's time? (I do know
    > the difference between a capacitor and battery. Thank you.)


    Because the mistake was so basic that I couldn't tell if it was a
    mistake in the principle or the terminology. The topic was batteries
    you know. Then you jump in with a comment on "micro-capacitors" which
    is not a term I've ever actually seen used. I thought perhaps it was a
    mistake of name. Or maybe you were trying to talk about
    super-capacitors or something else.


    > Sorry but I had this happen to me with a cordless phone. (While the handset
    > was in storage the handset died completely and a new battery didn't
    > work.) I
    > also picked up the info off Kirk Tuck's blog. He experienced his old Kodak
    > DSLR going dead in the same way. It wasn't the battery and someone else
    > provided a thorough answer why some types of capacitors go bad.


    "Someone's blog" is not a great place to get info like this. If you
    want to know about capacitors, you should contact a manufacturer of
    capacitors. They will be very happy to tell you all about the things
    you shouldn't do to them. Much is written about their limitations in
    the data sheets. Interestingly enough one of the things they have to
    emphasize is that they are relatively fragile and if the circuit board
    is bent the capacitors will break long before the PCB.

    I'm not trying to bust your chops, but bad info is often spread by word
    of mouth because no one ever challenges it. I would be interested in
    links to the sites you mention. A google search didn't find the page
    you describe.


    > I'm not sure what pisses me off most. Being treated like an idiot or people
    > assuming they know everything. I was only trying to help, okay? Next
    > time if
    > you're so smart find someone else...


    I was trying *not* to treat you like an idiot. That is why I asked the
    questions I asked. I thought I was stepping into the conversation
    gently so as to not tick off anyone. Sorry I offended you.

    If you are trying to help, that's fine, but please make sure your info
    is accurate and as always on the Internet, try to be a little less
    sensitive. I didn't intend to offend you, I just wanted to set the
    record straight.

    If you want to be insulted, post in sci.electronics.design. Those guys
    *try* to tick off everyone.

    --

    Rick
     
    rickman, Jun 27, 2013
    #20
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