Samsung GX20 anyone?

Discussion in 'Samsung' started by ME, May 26, 2008.

  1. ME

    ME Guest

    If so, what do you think of it - iso noise, exposure, af, build, functions,
    etc? I know it has pixel remap, image stabiliser, lens focal plane, sensor
    clean, water resistance, iso range,etc., so am intersted in its operation.
    It is quite abot cheaper than the Pentax K20D in the UK with its £100 rebate
    for the kit version.
     
    ME, May 26, 2008
    #1
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  2. ME

    Bruce Guest


    The Samsung is usefully cheaper than the Pentax, at least in the UK.

    However the Samsung lacks two key features of the Pentax. One is the
    extended dynamic range mode and the other is the dual RAW format. If
    I was considering these two cameras, I would not hesitate to choose
    the Pentax over the Samsung for those two features.
     
    Bruce, May 27, 2008
    #2
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  3. ME

    Focus Guest

    It lacks another important thing: the name Pentax ;-)
     
    Focus, May 27, 2008
    #3
  4. ME

    Pete D Guest

    I have not seen the extended DR making more than a little difference but the
    compressed pef would be the deal maker for me. Mind you I have not bought
    on and am waiting to see what they do with the fps and focusing in the K30D.
     
    Pete D, May 27, 2008
    #4
  5. ME

    ME Guest

    I don't see the lack of PEF as a problem DNG is widely supported, Lightroom
    is aware of the GX20 and memory is dirt cheap - 8GB Transcend class 6 SDHC
    is £20 (19/12MBs). The EDR is doable elsewhere (Photoshop) and likely better
    for it. But the price, I have the GX20 + kit lens is £460 UK (includes 10%
    off plus £100 rebate so £300 less than K20D) which is very good indeed. One
    can buy Pentax, Sigma, Tamron, Tokina lenses many of which are very good or
    better.
     
    ME, May 27, 2008
    #5
  6. Does the Samsing still carry a four-year warranty vs. the Pentax one-year
    warranty?
     
    Pete Stavrakoglou, May 27, 2008
    #6
  7. ME

    Bruce Guest


    As I understood it from a review that I skimmed through (no time to
    read it in detail) it wasn't possible to shoot RAW + JPEG at the same
    time with the Samsung. Perhaps I got that wrong.

    If you feel you can live with the very slightly lesser specification
    of the Samsung, I agree it is a bargain at £460. A £300 price
    difference for what is basically the same camera is staggering.

    There seems to be no additional risk in buying the Samsung as they are
    in it for the long haul. Samsung have a full frame CMOS sensor under
    development and in pixel count at least, it is expected to beat the
    Sony 24MP full frame sensor that will go in the soon-to-be-announced
    Sony Alpha 900 and Nikon D3X. Samsung have no intention of making
    their own DSLRs and their relationship with Pentax is very sound
    indeed. Pentax are financially very strong and have recently become
    part of the very stable and strong Hoya group, along with Tokina, who
    make all the new Pentax lenses. So Pentax and Samsung are good
    choices.

    Buying a Sony DSLR would appear much more risky than buying a Pentax
    or a Samsung as their sales are running at only a tiny fraction of
    Sony's projections. The reason is that almost all Sony Alpha sales
    are to existing Konica Minolta SLR/DSLR and Sony DSLR owners, of which
    there are relatively few, and hardly any are new entrants to the Sony
    brand.
     
    Bruce, May 28, 2008
    #7
  8. ME

    ME Guest

    It will do RAW + JPEG and that's selectable from a RAW button

    As far as I am aware it is only the EDR and a reduced-size-21-fps mode which
    are missing: I do not need 21fps. At £460 it's a steal. I can get the Pentax
    16-45 lens for £199 too. I'm sick of Canon's incremental upgrades. I was
    just viewing the Canon 450D samples on DPReview and have to say that the
    GX20/K20D hi-iso ones are less noisey yet the DIWA graphs suggests
    otherwise. Times are a changing. Canon might not rule alone for too much
    longer. Only bug is that Samsung has announced the G30X already due later
    this year. That promises to be something even better. Canon and Nikon need
    to get a move on. Competition is good for buyers.
    That's my understanding too.
    I agree. I did not like Sony's NR-in-RAW method either. Samsung has opted
    not to do that. You can turn up NR in JPEG but by default it is off and as
    far as I am aware RAW is RAW. There's a good article on www.cameralabs.com
    on the K20D which shows its effects.
     
    ME, May 28, 2008
    #8
  9. ME

    ME Guest

    My understanding is that they offer a two-year warranty on DSLRs but someone
    did say three years. I'll have to check that out. the law in the UK though
    does not specify a time.
     
    ME, May 28, 2008
    #9
  10. ME

    frederick Guest

    Some comments on the Samsung sensor:
    "Thus, the best comparison that one can come up with is the ability to
    boost raw under-exposed tones in post processing. I have shown that one
    can boost Nikon D300 low ISO images by 4 stops where as one can only
    boost K20D images by 2 to 2.5 stops; at high ISO's the Canon 40D and the
    Nikon D300 have about the same noise at ISO 1600 as the K20D does at ISO
    400 or the K20D has about 1.0 to 1.5 stops less dynamic range for images
    at ISO 1600, or only about 6 to 6.5 stops of dynamic range at ISO 1600
    for medium high image quality".
    http://daystarvisions.com/Docs/Rvws/K20D/pg3.html
     
    frederick, May 28, 2008
    #10
  11. ME

    Bruce Guest

    Yes, I have now read the detailed review in last week's Amateur
    Photographer and it will do DNG+JPEG together. No problem.
    That's a fine lens, far better than the kit 18-55mm which is a very
    disappointing lens.

    The review in last week's Amateur Photographer stated that the Samsung
    default mode exactly followed the Pentax EDR mode but with a 1/3EV
    exposure correction. That makes the decision to buy the Samsung a
    no-brainer.

    I would be interested to know where you obtained the prices you quoted
    for the Samsung as I haven't seen it that cheap in any adverts.
    Nikon have already overtaken Canon in DSLR sales volume!
    Thanks, I will look that up.
     
    Bruce, May 28, 2008
    #11
  12. ME

    Bob Guest

    Where in the uk are they selling the GX20 for £460

    thanks
     
    Bob, May 29, 2008
    #12
  13. ME

    Pete D Guest

    I can buy a K20D locally here in Australia for AUD1249 body only, the the
    current exchange rate that is around UKP£600
     
    Pete D, May 30, 2008
    #13
  14. ME

    ME Guest

    Thanks for the link. Revealing. The reviewer bought the K20D, uses it and
    likes it - he says many positive things about it. He investigated its
    noise/DR performance and his finding were upheld by some astrophotographers.
    So, it does not meet the D300 or 40D for silky smooth but they don't match
    it for detail either. It has facilities and price which better both. It
    performs well enough to use high iso speeds; a little NR, as with the
    others, and they are fine. I've looked at 100s of images from the K20D/GX20,
    40D and D300 and there is little difference on noise or colour between
    them - to my eyes. I can see no obvious difference in DR either. I can show
    high iso shots where the 40D and D300 look iffy. In everyday use (maybe not
    astrophotography) the K20D/GX20 is an excellent camera. Likely Samsung will
    improve its CMOS design - given it seems to have made some mistakes
    regarding noise. But a camera is not forever.
     
    ME, May 31, 2008
    #14
  15. ME

    frederick Guest

    The reason that you don't see a problem with 100s of images is that if
    exposed correctly in good conditions, there's no "need" for more than
    the comparatively limited usable DR that the samsung sensor offers - for
    display on screen or print with nothing more than minor tweaking in pp.
    That link however shows samples of a high contrast scene where shadows
    couldn't be lifted without excessive and intrusive noise. It's fairly
    normal in pp to lift shadows a couple of stops (particularly when EV
    -1.0 or so might have been used to save highlights), and that's mainly
    where lack of usable DR is going to impact on use of the camera. IMO
    it's a bad trade-off to gain very little in resolution - while the
    headline 15mp might be a seemingly attractive proposition for landscape
    photography, it's landscape photography where you can benefit from
    extended dynamic range through better sensor performance, and to a
    lesser degree 14 bit raw format.
    But if you don't shoot raw and post-process in that way, perhaps it
    matters less.
    The K20d sensor isn't very good - not only is it much worse than the
    Canon 40d / Nikon D300 sensors, but for DR performance it's not as good
    as the the 10mp Sony sensor in the K10d.
    It's surprising that few review sites pick up on this. My guess is that
    DPReview will, even if their gradient wedge test isn't well set up.
     
    frederick, May 31, 2008
    #15
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