Sensor Film (for cleaning sensor)

Discussion in 'Digital SLR' started by Paul Furman, Apr 10, 2010.

  1. In other words you were successfully trolled :)
     
    Chris Malcolm, Apr 13, 2010
    #41
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  2. Paul Furman

    C.P. Robbins Guest

    I suggest that you ignorant trolls go study up what an "electret" is. An
    external coating will do little to remove an internally induced charge.
    Electrets can be designed to hold their charge for centuries.
     
    C.P. Robbins, Apr 14, 2010
    #42
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  3. Paul Furman

    C.P. Robbins Guest

    Listen you fuckingly pathetic stupid IDIOT TROLL, ANY two materials at
    different locations from each other on the triboelectric scale WILL INDUCE
    A CHARGE IN EACH OTHER WHEN THEY ARE PULLED AWAY FROM EACH OTHER -- AT ANY
    RATE OF SPEED. PAPER IS NO DIFFERENT. THE ADHESIVES USED ON PAPER ARE NO
    DIFFERENT WHEN IT COMES TO INDUCING STATIC CHARGES.

    There is also an added principle which is not completely understood when it
    involves adhesives instead of non-adhesive materials being separated from
    each other. Adhesives OF ANY TYPE on ANY MATERIALS amplifying and
    exacerbating the effect.

    YOU ARE A FUCKING IDIOT POS SNAPSHOOTER TROLL. NOTHING LESS, NOTHING MORE.
    NOR WILL YOU EVER BE ANYTHING BUT THAT. GO CRAWL BACK UP THAT ASSHOLE OF
    IGNORANCE WHERE YOUR HEAD RESIDES.
     
    C.P. Robbins, Apr 14, 2010
    #43
  4. Paul Furman

    Paul Furman Guest

    The main example there was the same material pulled away from itself.
    This could be an interesting discussion if you had a point other than
    'everything outside your mind is doomed to failure.'

    Where do you get that idea?
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/edgehill/sets/72157603328712620/

    Did I touch a nerve or something?
     
    Paul Furman, Apr 14, 2010
    #44
  5. Paul Furman

    Bruce Guest


    Exactly right.


    David's refusal to discuss the issue suggests that he doesn't want to
    expose his ignorance. His posting history suggests that he is someone
    who makes definitive, seemingly authoritative statements about
    equipment he hasn't ever used, touched or seen, except perhaps in
    articles that other people have written. When someone has a habit of
    making such statements about equipment that is so far removed from the
    cheap, entry-level consumer-grade gear that they actually use, there
    is a severe credibility gap.


    Tell me about it. I have always had problems with static to the
    extent of giving myself and other people electric shocks. ;-)

    I have been using 4x5 film for architectural, landscape and food
    photography for a couple of years now, and static is a constant
    problem. If I am working as, or with, an assistant, the other person
    can change the film, but if I am working alone, there can be real
    problems with dust. I now do most of this work with a Hasselblad
    H3D-39, but architectural work is a problem as the clients still
    demand film.

    Plus, I already have the lenses I need for 4x5 but would have to get a
    second mortgage to buy ultra-wide lenses for the Hasselblad. ;-)

    Back to the point at issue; I also would welcome a discussion on
    static caused by sensor cleaning.
     
    Bruce, Apr 14, 2010
    #45
  6. Paul Furman

    Bruce Guest


    There is absolutely no need for that abuse. You have made an
    interesting point about static that is well worth discussing, but your
    ranting profanity and abuse serves only to stifle such discussion.

    That's a pity, because the subject is definitely of interest.
     
    Bruce, Apr 14, 2010
    #46
  7. David's refusal to discuss the issue suggests that he doesn't want to
    I try not to make statements about subjects where I have no direct
    knowledge, about equipment I have not actually used. Sensor cleaning
    simply has not been an issue for me.
    Anyone is welcome to look at my posting history and draw their own
    conclusions. Just because I have not used particular equipment doesn't
    bar me from asking questions about it.

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Apr 14, 2010
    #47
  8. Paul Furman

    Bruce Guest


    Then why not restrict yourself to asking questions, and no-one will
    complain.

    The problem is when you make definitive, authoritative statements that
    have no basis. Just because people like Alan Browne do it all the
    time doesn't mean that you also have to jump on the bandwagon.
     
    Bruce, Apr 14, 2010
    #48
  9. []
    As I said, I try not to, and I would appreciate correction if I make
    incorrect statements. Perhaps I don't succeed all the time, but who does?

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Apr 14, 2010
    #49
  10. [/QUOTE]
    The troll thinks you can make an electret by applying and peeling off
    a coating :)
     
    Chris Malcolm, Apr 14, 2010
    #50
  11. Paul Furman

    Bruce Guest


    You are by no means the worst offender.

    Perhaps you should avoid the pissing contents.
     
    Bruce, Apr 14, 2010
    #51
  12. Paul Furman

    Bruce Guest


    Oh well, you had a chance to share your knowledge and make a useful
    contribution here. Personally, I would have been very interested to
    hear more on the subject of sensor cleaning, and perhaps a comparison
    of the different techniques available, plus combinations of those
    techniques.

    Unfortunately, it was not to be. Sadly, you chose to revert to type.
     
    Bruce, Apr 14, 2010
    #52
  13. Paul Furman

    stephe_k Guest

    Have you ever worked with 120 film in the darkroom? I don't care HOW
    gently you pull the tape off, you will see a static discharge.
    I've never had to clean the sensor on my olympus E1 or does that not fit
    the topic for this group?

    Stephanie
     
    stephe_k, Apr 15, 2010
    #53
  14. Note that not all sensor dust cleaning methods are appropriate to all
    DSLR sensors. For example, Sony DSLRS, and some Canon models, use an
    anti-static indium tin oxide coating. This is conductive and
    discharges static charges. Hence you don't need to be so fussy about
    brushes or adhesives imparting a temporary static charge with
    those. But on the other hand some sensor cleaning solution which are
    ok on other cameras will remove the coating.
     
    Chris Malcolm, Apr 15, 2010
    #54
  15. Depends how they work. Some brushes do attract the dust by static, so
    wouldn't eliminate static on the glass, and might add static to the
    glass. But they can't add static to a sensor plate surface that has a
    conductive anti-static coating, as some some (some Canon, all Sony,
    some Pentx IIRC) do. Other brushes make dust that is attracted to the
    sensor by static easier to remove by discharging the static charge on
    the dust and sensor by means of conductive brush fibres. But there
    won't be any charge on those sensor plates which have a conductive
    surface coating.

    Sensor cleaning methods need to be considered in the light of specific
    sensor plate anti-static technologies. And some cleaning solutions
    risk removing the anti-static coatings on some sensor plates.
     
    Chris Malcolm, Apr 15, 2010
    #55
  16. I've never had to clean the sensor on my olympus E1 or does that not fit
    Same here - with my earlier cameras at most it's needed an occasional
    gentle blow with an air blower. The later DSLRs not at all.

    Cheers,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Apr 15, 2010
    #56
  17. Paul Furman

    stephe_k Guest


    Yes and yes. Believe it or not, their dust removal system actually works..

    Stephanie
     
    stephe_k, Apr 15, 2010
    #57
  18. Paul Furman

    Bruce Guest


    Yesterday I took my Kodak DCS Pro 14n to have the sensor cleaned. The
    technician is very experienced and cleans sensors on all brands of
    DSLR. We were discussing the differences between brands, and he told
    me that he has never had to clean the sensor of an Olympus DSLR.

    You might think that perhaps he hasn't had the opportunity, but the
    company he works for is one of the main service centres for Olympus UK
    and that brand represents almost 50% of the cameras serviced in their
    workshops. It is simply that Olympus DSLRs (and now their Pen range
    of Micro Four Thirds cameras) keep their sensors clean. The
    ultrasonic system they use is extremely effective.

    There is also a camera store on the premises. I enjoyed looking at a
    very wide selection of Olympus equipment on display dating from the
    1950s to the current range. I had a close personal relationship with
    Olympus Europe for many years dating from the early days of the OM
    System, so it brought back some good memories.
     
    Bruce, Apr 15, 2010
    #58
  19. Paul Furman

    Robert Coe Guest

    : On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 09:44:38 -0500, C.P. Robbins
    : >All of which induce an even stronger electrostatic charge on the substrate
    : >as it is peeled off, making it an even greater dust magnet afterward. (This
    : >method of optics cleaning is nothing new by the way. Collodion methods have
    : >been used for centuries. Goggle: optics cleaning collodion) 3M has done a
    : >lot in their adhesives research to try to prevent inducing a static charge
    : >between adhesive and the foundations to which they are applied and removed,
    : >but a completely neutral substance to the triboelectric scale is wholly
    : >impossible. I recently had to research this when trying to find a good belt
    : >material for a many-megavolt electrostatic generator--considering even some
    : >of 3M's adhesive tapes for the purpose (adhesive removed, of course). Their
    : >formulations for adhesives will bleed off a charge while they are in place,
    : >but they can do little about the problem when the two different layers are
    : >pulled away from each other. They are non-electrostatic inducing while
    : >applied but not when separated.
    :
    : That's very interesting, thank you.
    :
    : >My photography work-flow is free and clear of all these image and
    : >opportunity destroying problems. I only buy cameras without all these
    : >encumbrances.
    :
    : Please explain?

    He uses film.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Apr 17, 2010
    #59
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