"Shoot In" Permanently Gone?

Discussion in 'Digital Cameras' started by John Turco, Mar 24, 2014.

  1. John Turco

    John Turco Guest

    Hello, all:

    I'm aware of the recent demise of the "Shoot In" (after roughly 10
    years of existence). Will it be replaced or resurrected, anytime
    soon?

    Just wondering!

    (Note: I never entered the Shoot In.)

    John
     
    John Turco, Mar 24, 2014
    #1
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  2. John Turco

    PeterN Guest

    We need someone willing to organize and run it. The last two folks were
    quite good, but it really takes time and dedication. It also takes
    active participation, where members of the group are willing to submit,
    and give honest comments,
     
    PeterN, Mar 24, 2014
    #2
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  3. John Turco

    Sandman Guest

    Hmmm, I could probably set up a neat web page with galleries for each
    theme, and the possibility for comments that get autoposted to rpd in a
    summary.
     
    Sandman, Mar 24, 2014
    #3
  4. John Turco

    Whisky-dave Guest

    Me too, I liked viewing them but found commenting tedious and inefficient and so was less inclined to submit. i.e having no way of linking the comment to the picture rather than them beiong two seprate things in two seprate places made little sense to me.

    At least the discuions, flames, pointless arguments and everything else on here is in the same place has an order which can easily be followed if only the same could be done with photos ;-)
     
    Whisky-dave, Mar 24, 2014
    #4
  5. John Turco

    PeterN Guest

    Some here were mildly chastised for selective commenting. I enjoyed the
    mostly honest feedback on my images. There were of course, some who made
    negative comments about the concept, but never submitted any images of
    their own. Yes I do miss the shootin.
     
    PeterN, Mar 24, 2014
    #5
  6. John Turco

    Tony Cooper Guest

    The "Shoot-In" died because of lack of participation, not a need for a
    host site. Not enough people submitted images, and very few comments
    were made about the images that were submitted.

    I liked the Shoot-In and regret its demise. It was one area where
    personality conflicts were set aside.
     
    Tony Cooper, Mar 24, 2014
    #6
  7. John Turco

    Sandman Guest

    Yeah, that may be true. Maybe the disconnect between usenet/web made it
    awkward to comment? Maybe you could have added a rating system to it?

    The idea that popped up in my mind was that the gallery would have a
    comment and rating function, and you could auto-submit the comments and/or
    ratings to rpd directly from the site, so you'd get a post with the subject
    "Comments from Tony Cooper" and then each and every comment had the photo
    name and a link to it along with any rating as well.

    But yeah, perhaps participation wouldn't increase, really
     
    Sandman, Mar 24, 2014
    #7
  8. John Turco

    Savageduck Guest

    Participation was the major issue. The SI withered down to a core of 4
    or 5 regulars, and a handful of casual participants. Even among the
    regulars a sense of ennui had descended on the whole thing,
    particularly with some of the recent uninspiring mandates. As much as
    part of the thing was to meet the challenge of a mandate which took you
    out of your comfort zone, for me anyway, there was this sense that I
    had other stuff to do.

    It seemed that no matter how much we tried to promote and encourage
    participation we could never get more than one or two extras to the
    group each month. This was true for some of the most vocal of the usual
    suspects in the photo news groups. Too many of them refused to rise to
    the challenge of the SI, I suspect it was because they didn't want to
    expose themselves to any criticism, constructive, critical or otherwise.
    That might be true if it was a case of writing comments in the gushing
    "Wow!" praise style of those found in some of the sharing sites such as
    Flickr. However, what we were trying to do was provide constructive
    criticism along with acknowledgment of good work and give reasons for
    our opinions. That is a tougher task, and only a few of us took the
    trouble to give that attention to each of the shots submitted. To do
    that properly takes a fair about of work, and not that many cared to
    invest that sort of time and effort.

    I did my best to comment on each submission, and many times I felt like
    I was the only one making the effort, even though Tony was usually
    there with his take on things.
    That sounds very much like the sort of participation, rating, and
    comments found in the Google+ photography circles along with their
    various photo challenges.
     
    Savageduck, Mar 24, 2014
    #8
  9. John Turco

    Tony Cooper Guest

    That would be a better system. Much better. When comments did
    appear, they were in several threads and posts, and it was difficult
    to relate the comment to the image.

    I dunno that we want ratings, though. Just comments. The idea wasn't
    to have a "winner". It was to provide a showcase for images. A
    competitive aspect might not be welcome.

    The Shoot-Ins used a theme or mandate. That was good, in my opinion,
    because it got people to look for shots that fit the mandate and not
    just link to some archive shot.
    Don't know until it's tried.
     
    Tony Cooper, Mar 24, 2014
    #9
  10. John Turco

    Whisky-dave Guest

    The same happened to the camera club I was in.
    That's how I feel and I've not even retired yet, which is when I feel I could devote more time to photography.

    For me the idea just passed me bym after the shoot in I always thpuight of things I could have submitted but I never actually went out to take photos for teh shoot in.When I was with the club we set off on a coach trip on a sunday morningperhaps 6 or moer times a year.
    The last time I purposfully went out to take photos was 2007. I just don't see photgraphy the same way as I uswd to when I first started.

    I could be bothered opening up yet another file that needed to keep the subject title correct that didn't point to the picture anyway.
    I like flickr for it's ease of use you can see a picture and right there below it you can see comments good or bad, there's no searching for multipleposts to see what people are saying no need to crop your image to a specific size or send it to an individual for publishing.

    That could be it for some making it easier to comment and post might help for others it might be a sign that others might have an opinion that some onhere don't like and that suits them in this closed enviroment of just the few here.
    I can see no reason why we can't take comments from others, but it seems some here don't like that idea.
    I often started to view and though of commenting but got distracted and withy postiong from google and all teh complaints about lines adn spelling mistake/gramma it just got boring.
    Seems I joineed google+ by accident the other night.


    Probably not from this NG/usenet, but a few of my top groups have faded from usenet replaced by facebook and the like.

    Maybe somethijng liek a flickr group would attract more people too unless we just want this private photogroup, and from what I can tell most of teh posters here haven;'t got much time left on this earth and the others with mental problems, reading oddities, language difficulties and being foregin then not a good future for this NG as far as photos go.
    Yes sandman and nospam you know you're particular problems ;-)
     
    Whisky-dave, Mar 24, 2014
    #10
  11. John Turco

    Sandman Guest

    I never saw much actual criticism though, but sure, that could have been a
    reason.
    Which, I take it, is not something you'd endorse :)
     
    Sandman, Mar 24, 2014
    #11
  12. John Turco

    Sandman Guest

    Yes, of course, I was being unclear. I meant rating from Tony Cooper as he
    saw the images. Not as a summary of all opinins, nor as a summary of Tony's
    opinions on the pictures he just commented on (which of course, one could
    glean from the info still, though). I thought something in the lines of
    this:

    Subject: SI/2014-01, Comments from Tony Cooper

    Gallery: <link>

    1. "Happy Place" by Sandman
    <link>
    Rating: 3/5

    I like this style, really, but I think it could have used a bt less post in
    terms of HDR-like contrasts and things like that.

    2. "Me and myself" by Eric Stevens
    <link>
    Rating: 4/5

    This is better than your last one, I think bla bla bla...

    And so on. Sure - one could look at the entire post and see what photos you
    liked the most and the least, but that should be as obvious when reading
    your comments as well.

    And why not have a SI-summary of all comments at the end of a period, just
    as a reminder and to re-engage the people in the group.
    Sure, I would have no problem coming up with themes for photo galleries,
    and I'm sure others could have opinions as well.

    In fact - I could write 12 themes beforehand and have the script auto-post
    reminders and comments without me lifting another finger :) I love
    automation :)

    There's the matter of authentication, though. You could have a link in rpd
    that links to the gallery, where you could "log in" by just submitting your
    rpd email, at which point an account would be created for you, which you
    need to comment and post submissions.

    So, you'd post submission via the web page, not to a person. The
    submissions would be auto-resized and put in the right shoot-in and then
    grouped by submitter.

    Question is, would people really want the entire account-creating step
    though. Dunno if there is an easier way.
    Maybe I'll set it up when I get back from Florida.
     
    Sandman, Mar 24, 2014
    #12
  13. John Turco

    Savageduck Guest

    ....and that was always a big issue. We never intended for any of the
    comments to be scathing criticism, but constructive criticism, and
    acknowledgment of good work. Those of us who did comment did our best
    to step away from any animosity, but we would call shooters on
    questionable work, and try to make suggestions for a fix.
    ....but not a rational one by those who didn't participate and were also
    critical of the whole concept of the SI. Most of the comments were
    pretty benign. For example here are some of my comments from July 2013.
    I also include a link to the pbase gallery for that mandate:

    http://www.pbase.com/shootin/bbq_outdoor_cooking


    PhotoPhartz:
    1: Nice capture of a community holiday cookout in the park, or wherever
    that shore side location is. I just wonder if you might have found a
    slightly different position, or isolate the central group who seem to
    be actively engaged in the art of outdoor cooking.
    2: ...and there they are, actively engaged in the art of outdoor cooking
    3: Nice burger, plus detail insert. That is a first for the SI.

    Bob Flint:
    1: MOLSON!! Ok! I know it's a beer for the burger you are woking on, but...
    2: That is a clean grill. Was that just good outdoor kitchen sanitary
    practice, or was it a virgin grill?
    ....and was that the sacrificial burger?
    3: The result, burger & beer. I know you are classy guy Bob, but this
    is where the paper plate would have been appropriate. ;-)

    Savageduck (yours truly):
    1: The Rib Line is one of several rib, tri-tip operations at the San
    Luis Obispo Farmers market every Thursday. They start cooking quite
    early, and by 6PM there are folks lined up for ribs and/or tri-tip
    sandwiches. This was shot before the crowds arrived.
    2: The server had his "Uncle Sam" hat on for the 4th of July.
    3: I took several shots of this pizza oven and I just couldn't get a
    good angle to get what I wanted, so this was a bit of a compromise with
    some of the chimney cropped. I had to find a way of including it, as
    the concept of a traveling pizza oven is so different from the usual
    grill, smokehouse fare.

    Otter:
    1: I expected nothing less than one of your local joints, but just how
    much actual outdoor cooking do they do there?
    2: Now you're cookin' !! Chicken, brisket, sausage, & something
    unidentifiable, all looking very tempting.
    3: The meat looks good, but Rudy needs to get a better supplier of
    bread. That bread looks unappealing.

    Bowser:
    1: There it is. Perhaps the only thing to improve that scenario would
    be to have you holding it through a window with the rain pouring down
    outside.
    2: Aah! A New England Summer.
    3: Fourth of July cookout. The perfect way to spend the day, family
    friends, and burgers.

    Peter Newman:
    1: Nice capture, but where exactly was this cooked outdoors? ;-)
    2: Coney Island & Nathans, portable food for NYC. I have a feeling that
    the PeterN touch on this might raise a few conservative eyebrows.
    3: I like the neat capture of the "Lady in White", but the context of
    her patient wait seems to be lost.
    Then there are the "porta-potties" in the background. ;-(

    Alan Browne, Paul Furman, and I have G+ accounts and explored the
    practicality of setting up an SI type thing there, about 3-4 years ago.
    The possibility exists by setting up a dedicated SI Circle, but there
    seemed to be even less enthusiasm among the original
    rec.photo.equipment.35mm SI participants for G+ than there was in the
    last year.

    The other thing was a G+ version of the SI had the potential for
    becoming cluttered very quickly. That was back when G+ had just started
    up, it might be possible to put something a bit more refined together
    there now.

    G+ Photography circles already has several theme based weekly exercises.
     
    Savageduck, Mar 24, 2014
    #13
  14. John Turco

    Tim Conway Guest

    I also miss the shootin. I occasionally submitted, but almost never
    commented. I really don't feel qualified to critique, but would like the
    opportunity to if I had something to say about a photo. I also enjoyed and
    learned from the criticism I received.
     
    Tim Conway, Mar 24, 2014
    #14
  15. John Turco

    Tony Cooper Guest

    I don't think this would fly. I don't mind getting a 3/5, but I think
    there are some who wouldn't participate because anything less than a
    5/5 would get up their noses.

    I like the comments. I entered every almost every SI, I submit images
    to my camera club on competition night, and I post images to another
    camera forum. I do this because I want to see how others see my
    images. Other people see things in images that the photographer
    doesn't notice. Comments people have made about my images have helped
    me compose better images going forward.
     
    Tony Cooper, Mar 24, 2014
    #15
  16. John Turco

    Eric Stevens Guest

    Being old and less than mobile while they keep whittling skin cancers
    out of my legs, I found the requirement that the shots be taken during
    the period of the mandate quite off-putting. On the other hand, I have
    had archive shots which fitted the bill. Is the object the shot, or is
    it the whole task of being sent out to get a particular shot?
     
    Eric Stevens, Mar 24, 2014
    #16
  17. John Turco

    RichA Guest

    That would be good, it could evolve into something more.
     
    RichA, Mar 24, 2014
    #17
  18. John Turco

    Tony Cooper Guest

    I think determining the objective is up to the individual. If you
    want to participate, but can't get out to shoot fresh, I certainly
    wouldn't have a problem with that. I'm going to shoot fresh because
    it pleases me to do so.
     
    Tony Cooper, Mar 24, 2014
    #18
  19. John Turco

    PeterN Guest

    While I like the concept of a mandate, there were lots of times where i
    could not motivate myself to shoot to the mandate. In those cases, I
    submitted archive shots and received some interesting comments. It was
    considered OK to submit archive shots, provided they were labeled as such.
     
    PeterN, Mar 24, 2014
    #19
  20. John Turco

    Savageduck Guest

    The idea was for the shot to meet the mandate, with the expectation
    that one would be shooting to meet that mandate. Usually submitting
    archive shots which met the mandate could be acceptable, but they
    should be labeled to indicate that they were archive shots. usually
    using the following labeling convention:
    {SI Mandate}-{Shooter Nym}-{Shot #}-{Old}

    Unless the particular mandate specifically excludes archive shots.
     
    Savageduck, Mar 25, 2014
    #20
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