smh article on burned media longevity

Discussion in 'Australia Photography' started by rb, Jun 21, 2006.

  1. rb

    rb Guest

    rb, Jun 21, 2006
    #1
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  2. rb

    Mr.T Guest

    With absolutely nothing new added, it's just a way for a journalist to make
    money from regurgitation of misinformation.
    (nice job if you can get it I suppose, he even seems to think gold CD's are
    a new idea!)

    MrT.
     
    Mr.T, Jun 21, 2006
    #2
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  3. rb

    mekon76 Guest

    mekon76, Jun 21, 2006
    #3
  4. rb

    GraB Guest

    Well, recently I went through some of my earliest discs to see what
    was there. A Ricoh CD burned in 2001 has now developed a couple of
    unreadable files. These Ricohs have been very good while others have
    fallen over but now signs that these are starting to fall over. They
    have been stored in a case in a dark place and hardly ever accessed.

    Has anyone actually had experience of this happening with DVDs? I
    haven't, yet.
     
    GraB, Jun 21, 2006
    #4
  5. rb

    mal Guest

    I have early princo which are 5 years old and still going along
    nicely, however princo of 2 years ago up to today have failed inside a
    few months of burning as have latest riteks and some tdk's.
     
    mal, Jun 21, 2006
    #5
  6. rb

    GraB Guest

    Come to think of it, I have had one fail after some months. That was
    a Laser brand SKC-made DVD-R, the worst media I have ever used. Most
    burned with such a high error count that I simply discarded them. I
    kept one test result, done with KProbe2 on my LiteOn burner: avg PI
    errors 976, peak 1370, avg PIF 107. The standard allows for 280 PI
    and 4 PIF, so you can see how bad they were.
     
    GraB, Jun 21, 2006
    #6
  7. rb

    Mr.T Guest

    I have many 10 years old that are still fine. The big problem is often the
    drive/disc performance at the time it is written. If a disk has lots of
    recoverable errors to start with, they can become unrecoverable over time.
    Another factor is the higher write speeds these days.

    MrT.
     
    Mr.T, Jun 21, 2006
    #7
  8. rb

    Mr.T Guest

    I had the same problem with a Lite-On burner too, when the same disks
    recorded perfectly on a Pioneer.
    The good thing about the Lite-On is you can see just how bad the disks are,
    when recorded on the Lite-On, and how much better they are when recorded on
    something else :)

    MrT.
     
    Mr.T, Jun 21, 2006
    #8
  9. rb

    Bounty Bob Guest


    I agree with that. I've recently started converting stuff
    stored on cds to dvd and I can tell when my first cd writer
    (april 1999 to november 2000) started to go away.. Exact
    same brand of discs and I was able to get progressively
    less data off them from around october. 6 month break
    to the new writer and a brief flurry of all sorts of
    discs, all of which read perfectly.
     
    Bounty Bob, Jun 21, 2006
    #9
  10. rb

    Calvin Guest

    I've always believed that the 'R' media, be they CD-R, DVD-R or DVD+R,
    will have a very limited life. The recording relies on 'burning' the
    data into a dye layer on the media. These dyes are based on organic
    chemistry, which on the whole, is notoriously unstable, particularly if
    subjected to an unfavourable environment. (eg: high temperatures, high
    humidity, high light levels - particularly sources high in U.V. content)

    I believe that the re-writable media are in fact a better option for
    archival storage. The data is stored in a 'phase-change' metallic layer.
    Being a metal, it is far more stable long-term. The metallic layer is
    'supported' by a 'dielectric layer' that IS based on organic chemistry.
    Failure of the dielectric layer will render the media impossible to
    erase or re-record, but the content already held on it should be safe.

    Just my 'two cents' worth.

    Calvin.
     
    Calvin, Jun 21, 2006
    #10
  11. rb

    GraB Guest

    Interesting. I take it you don't like LiteOns. I burned OptodiscOR4
    and OptodiscOR8 media with excellent results. I have one test result
    here from an OptodiscOR4 burn: avg PI 0.92, avg PIF 0.00.
    Overall I have been very pleased with the quality of burns from my
    LiteOn with various media. Off course I always seek to have the
    latest firmware, usually CodeGuys, optimized for burn quality. :)
     
    GraB, Jun 21, 2006
    #11
  12. rb

    rob Guest


    A lot of people bag LiteOn DVD burners for no apparent reason. I have
    two LiteOn burners (832S & 165H6S) which have served me very well and
    with quality patched firmware have delivered excellent PI and PIF
    results across a range of media. Some of the earlier LiteON DVD
    burners were a bit unreliable and many didn't handle DVD-R/RW media
    that well. Later models are just as good as Pioneer and LG burners
    IMO
     
    rob, Jun 21, 2006
    #12
  13. rb

    Groucho Guest

    It wasn't only users who were bagging LiteOn DVD burners as reviews of the
    earlier generation drives were often unfavourable as well. Their CD burners
    had a very good reputation and strong following but LiteOn seemed to have
    lost the plot when they first started producing DVD burners and a lot of
    goodwill and reputation was lost during their transistion from making very
    bad to good product again.
     
    Groucho, Jun 21, 2006
    #13
  14. rb

    k Guest

    | That oft debated issue rears its head again
    |
    http://www.smh.com.au/news/cameras--videos/burning-for-the-long-haul/2006/06
    /14/1149964545127.html
    |
    | rb



    kprobe:
    from http://www.cdrlabs.com/kprobe/index.php

    (2.1Mb download)
    allows you to test dvd's by looking at the errors on the disks.


    the outcomes and experiences have been listed here:

    http://www.videohelp.com/dvdmedia
    princo AND TDK DVD's (and others) scored a GOOD rating, interestingly there
    are substantially more user comments, most very good, on Princo than the
    nest nearest commented upon brand.. 297 V 74 comments

    seems that the reviewers also get to state how many disks they've burned
    too - some of the reviewers have burnt a mere _single_ disk on which
    they've based their reports - the Princo brigade however all seem to have
    burnt 25, 100, 50 etc .



    I think the *best* way to resolve this is to check the error count on the
    various disks available and then treat the results as a guide*. As is
    stated there, compatibility is NOT a good guide to reliability, only the
    error count gives a true indication of fallibility.

    *as with film, every batch is different and because one review says their
    lot tested good doesn't mean the batch I buy tomorrow are also going to be
    as good


    and http://www.dvdinfopro.com/


    DVDINFOProT by Nic Wilson is a DVD information program written in Visual
    C++ for Windows 95, 98, 98SE, ME, NT, 2000, XP.

    The program provides information & tools for

    DVD-R/RW
    DVD+R/RW burners
    DVD+R DL (Double Layer) burners
    DVD-ROM players.
    It also provides information on CD players & burners.


    "I get a lot of emails asking me how I produce my media test graphs and
    where do I find the drives and media information.
    Well the answer is DVDInfoPro produced by Nic Wilson
    This program provides me with all the drive information, media information
    and also produces all the graphs & charts I need to carry out my reviews.
    "


    Current version v3.52 17/02/2005

    http://www.dvd-recordable.org/wwwimgs/media/flash/dvdinfopro/dvdinfoproadve
    rt.zip
    Free Version with embedded adverts 1.59meg.
    This free version will expire on 17/03/2005


    www.DVDrecordable.org - another good site for reviews on optical media and
    drives
     
    k, Jun 21, 2006
    #14
  15. rb

    k Guest

    | That oft debated issue rears its head again
    |
    http://www.smh.com.au/news/cameras--videos/burning-for-the-long-haul/2006/06
    /14/1149964545127.html



    btw,
    from CDMedia world - the goss on TDK's.. some of which are even MADE by TDK
    <!?>
    http://www.dvdmediaworld.com/hardware/cdrom/tdk.shtml

    and other brands..
    http://www.dvdmediaworld.com/hardware/cdrom/dvd_info.shtml


    some stuff about quality
    http://cdmediaworld.com/hardware/cdrom/cd_quality.shtml

    and dyes..
    http://cdmediaworld.com/hardware/cdrom/cd_dye.shtml

    the most durable dye, PhthaloCyanine, used in Princo's is also used by many
    other makers too but I see the TDK's listed here are using cyanine
    (what!!!) - the worst dye of the lot for longevity - and they use this in
    the disks that they guarantee for 100 years even tho the dye's only
    expected to last 10 years.

    OK, they don't list the dyes used in ALL the TDK's but hey - something
    funny going on here :-/
     
    k, Jun 21, 2006
    #15
  16. rb

    RJ Guest

    My worst experiences have been with rewritables.
    They have faded away within months.

    My suggestion : - Trust nothing !
     
    RJ, Jun 21, 2006
    #16
  17. CD's that are 10 years old or DVD's ?
    The reason I ask is the Pioneer DVR-103/A03 didn't get released until
    August of 2001. The earlier Pioneer SCSI Authoring burners came out 4
    years earlier but were like $8000+ each and could not read or write to
    DVD-RW because that hadn't been invented at that time.

    The first Pioneer burner in the Pioneer DVR-101S came out in September
    of 1997. It connected via a SCSI-2 interface. The media were 3.95Gb
    discs.

    I tend to burn at the max speed of 16X all the time on various DVD
    burners I have owned over the years. I have media burns going back to
    2002 which still play back fine today.

    SalesMart.com.au
    Perth, Western Australia
    http://www.salesmart.com.au
    *******************************************
    Email Contact info on the above site.
    *******************************************
     
    SalesMart.com.au, Jun 21, 2006
    #17
  18. rb

    GraB Guest

    I had some Melody CD-RW that were total rubbish. Their claimed 1000
    rewrites! All mine packed up after only 10. But I have been using
    Mitsubishi and Verbatim DVD+RW with total reliability so far (Win98SE
    doesn't support multisession on DVD+R but does so on DVD+RW).
     
    GraB, Jun 22, 2006
    #18
  19. rb

    Mr.T Guest

    Actually I used to love Lite-On CDR's once upon a time.
    Unfortunately the last 3 Lite-On drives I have bought all failed to perform
    adequately, so no more for me.
    Wish I had got a good one too, or I wouldn't have a box full of coasters :)
    I have an 832S with latest CG firmware that I only use as a reader now, a
    Pioneer 110D is now giving me *far* better burns.

    MrT.
     
    Mr.T, Jun 22, 2006
    #19
  20. rb

    Mr.T Guest

    A box full of coasters (100's), tested appallingly with Kprobe2, from three
    seperate drives, is enough reason for me.
    How much do you usually require?

    In fact when the cost of failed disks was higher than the cost of a new
    drive, the decision to dump them became very easy :)
    But what really annoys me is all the marginal disks I have that are
    currently readable, but for how long?
    Wish my 832S did. Have tried every firmware I can lay my hands on including
    all the Code Guys ones.
    Results were marginal to start with, but became downright awful after very
    little use.
    Maybe they are, if you get a good one, I suppose.
    My tip is to only buy them from a very good dealer, if you must buy one at
    all.

    MrT.
     
    Mr.T, Jun 22, 2006
    #20
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