Some old mini DV tapes won't play back properly on new camcorder

Group, I have a problem(!)

My old Sony mini DV camcorder died. It had a faulty screen, I
attempted to fix it, and killed it dead. It was a DCR-SC100E PAL from
1998. It had lasted well, filled 80 mini DV tapes, though never really
wowed me quality wise.

After much consideration, I bought a Canon HV20. Lovely machine. Will
have to save up for a new PC fast enough to decode HDV, but that's by
the by.

The problem is that _some_ of my old DV tapes won't play properly on
the Canon. Problems range from slight tiny few pixel drop outs, to the
entire right 1/4 of the screen constantly dropping out and being
replaced by the previous frame - with the audio dropping out almost
constantly too. However, some tapes play without any visible problems
(even those with lots of panning and movement where it would be easy
to spot).

I can find no pattern to the problems. SP or LP, Sony Panasonic or
Matsui(!) tape, widescreen or 4x3, 1998 or 2007 - I have good and bad
examples from each.

I'm wondering if it had something to do with using different brands of
tape occasionally. In the reading I did before buying the HV20 I
discovered this was a complete no-no. No one told me 9 years ago! I
mainly used Sony Premium or Sony Colour Collection - and I'm wondering
if problems appear on the recordings after using a Panasonic instead
(or, most recently, on recordings made after transferring some old
Panasonic tapes onto PC).

The old camcorder had occasional problems on the recordings, which
were always there when played back. Using a head cleaner once, and
later giving up on LP in favour of SP, seemed to solve these for good
on future recordings.

However, on the new camcorder, the tapes I had with a few problems are
now disasters, but also very recent tapes with no previous problems
are also disasters.

Has anyone experience this? I considered the old camcorder's heads
could be out of alignment, but I have plenty of tapes recorded on
there which play fine. I considered the HV20 could be picky or faulty,
but a friend playing one of my recent, wrecked tapes sees exactly the
same problem. Yet I still have the AVI copied onto my PC using the old
camcorder which is just fine.


I would be interested to know how this happened. I suspect the old
camcorder was "never quite right", maybe because I used different
brands of tape, or maybe because of a manufacturing (or handling!)
defect.

Most importantly, I am wondering about the best way to play back these
tapes. I don't have copies of most of them, so want to transfer them
as well as possible. Do I try to get my old camcorder repaired
(telling the repairer _not_ to fix any transport problems it may
have!), or can I buy another machine that's more "forgiving" of "bad"
tapes, whatever that may mean?

Any advice gratefully received.

Cheers,
David.

P.S. do I risk wrecking the HV20 with these damaged tapes?

 

miniDV have narrow track and may not read properly on different camcorders

try a different camcorder to read the old tape

 

I would definitley repair the old machine and stop using the HV20 to
play the tapes.

If budget is an issue, you can always e-bay the fixed camera once
you've transferred the vidoes to a hard drive.

MD

 

If only the screen is dead, could you not hook up the camcorder's
video output, either S-, composite or firewire and play the tapes out
to either a VCR to make a VHS or S-VHS tape copy, or (by firewire) to
a computer, for capture by video capture/edit software?

If, indeed, you further disabled the entire camcorder in the process
of attempting to "fix" it, you are out of luck with this suggestion.

Considering all the "static" on the internet about the use of the long-
play feature of the camcorders capable of doing so, I find it strange
that you made those LP tapes. From the beginning, there were many
warnings against using the LP function, specifically due to the
likelyhood that other camcorders would likely not be able to play the
LP tapes back.

In addition, I, and several others on this same rec.video.desktop
forum, (back when it was still "dejanews"), posted warnings about
using various brands of tape indiscriminatively. I posted based upon
personal experience with an early VX1000.

Sony tapes were hard to find, and when you could find them they were
2-3 times as much as a Panasonic, so I had to interchange them.
Within the first 3 months I had to run the abrasive "head cleaner
tape" twice. At the end of my first year, I sent the camcorder to
Sony for annual maintenance without mentioning the problem. It was
returned with a stern message written across the service tag to "use
only Sony tapes"!

years, have never had to use the head cleaner tape again. Since then
I have purchased and used extensively a TRV900 and a PC-120, none of
which have ever needed the use of that same head cleaner tape.

I hope you can use my suggestion to copy your tapes. But if not, I
can only wish you luck.

Mike

 

Sounds like your old camcorder was marginally within
"interchange" (the proper alignment that allows tapes to
be played back on other machines).

The only real solution would be to get a machine that is
adjusted for the worst of the marginal tapes and use it to
read those tapes. It might be worth it to get your old camcorder
running at least to the point where it can read the tapes
(which doesn't require the viewfinder, etc.)

 

Thanks for all the replies. I'm relieved to find some knowledge in
here (as you probably know, there are some useless Usenet groups out
there). I clearly should have visited rec.video.desktop years ago.

I know, it even said it in the manual. I was young and foolish, tapes
were expensive, it seemed to work OK at the time, and I assumed I'd
copy them before it became an issue. Then I completely forgot I'd ever
used LP, had kids, and never had time to go back to the old tapes.

Anyway, plenty of the LP tapes do play back just fine - that's what's
so strange - whatever was wrong, it wasn't constantly wrong. Meanwhile
there are SP tapes that are "bad".

I wish I'd been reading back then, because I could easily have stuck
to just Sony tapes. The reason I stopped using Panasonics was because
they didn't seem quite as good, not because I knew better.

I think my best bet, as others have suggested, is to try to get the
old machine fixed.

I just wish I understood exactly what had happened, because it might
help, if I can't get the old machine fixed...

The old machine played back the "bad" and "good" tapes. I guess it
must be a combination of tape tension, head alignment, and the wet vs
dry tape lubricant. I'm also wondering, if my old camcorder had
perfectly clean heads again, whether it would actually play the "bad"
tapes.

If I can't get my old machine fixed, might it be possible to "break"
another machine to mimic whatever was wrong about with the old one.
I'm guessing tape tension and wet vx dry lubricant can be recreated,
but head alignment can't be?

Cheers,
David.

 

Yes, you can have a technician "align" any machine to your
"bad" tapes so that they can be played. (And then restore it
to proper interchange alignment) The question is whether
it is worth the expense/hassle?

 

I've found someone who can probably copy the tapes with an "adjusted"
machine for £15 per tape, or can probably fix my old machine for £110.

I'm going to go and count the "bad" tapes and see how many are
important.

I'm also going to make damn sure that I make backups of my footage in
the future! I'm very careful with the digital photos that I take,
because I know how easy it is to lose computer data. I've got copies
on CDs, DVDs, and HDDs in three different houses. I think I'll adopt a
similar approach to DV/HDV now! (but using the original tape as one
backup).

Cheers,
David.