Someone fetch the tablets

Discussion in 'Photography' started by \(not quite so\) Fat Sam, Oct 3, 2007.

  1. \(not quite so\) Fat Sam

    dadiOH Guest

    As far as I can see, no one is saying it can't.
    Because - in Fine Art According to UC - there is that damned camera
    that does the actual focusing of the image on a light sensitive
    material. Nevermind that a painter's eye does the same thing on his
    brain. Nevermind that the raw image on the light sensitive material
    can be massaged and manipulated to conform with what the
    photographer's brain desires just as the painter's image can be. IOW,
    he is a pedant.

    --

    dadiOH
    ____________________________

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    dadiOH, Oct 8, 2007
    #81
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  2. \(not quite so\) Fat Sam

    Not4wood Guest

    I think its time to go forward with this discussion.

    Accepting the pros and cons from what we already have as a basic guideline
    or standard and leaving what we now have, and going forward. All UC is
    doing at this time is arguing the same drivel over and over. I have tried
    to change the discussion several ways and its now not worth it any more. If
    he wants to stay stagnant, then its his responsibility. I had felt that if
    we can convert him to a fresh understanding of the possibilities of anything
    even trying to be near Art we can grow as a group and accomplish more. Too
    bad.... UC, even if not trying to make or create Art would you be willing
    to try and go forward with fresh ideas of creativity and challenge the world
    on showing them what a true Photograph can really be and making a new
    perspective of the concept of what Art is or should be?

    There has been groups or pockets of what was tried at certain times I guess
    for acceptance of new styles.

    Since all of our technology including the P&S Cameras and including the DSLR
    are so far above the primitive tools that they had we could either look at
    what was done and go forward or take the time to review and try to re-create
    those ideas with our new perspectives and skills to put a fresh look on it.
    We can be so bold as to even use film cameras to change a slight idea
    around.

    I would say to look back as an exercise and get the feel for what they have
    accomplished and use it as an understanding of patience and compassion. All
    Photographers of all skills with fresh ideas and perspective since we are
    all students just on different levels. Can go forward with the
    understanding of quality control and everything we do has to be at least the
    best of our equipment and ability so no one can say anybody is getting
    sloppy or careless..

    Composition, Lighting, details in shadows, exposure control for dominating
    the pure whites and every shade going to full black and being careful of not
    using or using very sparingly the higher ISO speeds to minimize Noise
    depending of course on camera ability. Like everything else, rules are made
    to be broken. But before the rules can get broken we have to understand
    what the rules are and then with a practiced hand and understanding of why
    those rules should be broken and when.

    I am not saying to go out and just recreate the work that has been done.
    Like getting a group of people and posing them up in a scene similar to what
    was done before. But what I'm saying is we should at least go out with the
    same mental reasoning and purpose and try to accomplish what there ideas
    were and why and being creative about it. With our skills and tools I think
    we can create new and exciting fresh ideas from there thoughts and reason.

    Any ideas, anybody??

    I say we look at the all the technology around us in our daily lives,
    whether they be for transportation with Green how it effects our future, or
    to communication and relaxation. Showing the pursuit of happiness in modern
    times. Showing the struggle to make ends meet and living in this hard
    pressed economic situation.

    How bout trying to capture the new contemporary mind set of showing how
    humans today feel using modern technology for the pursuit of life. How do
    they work, travel and relax. We have enough people here to each just take a
    small area and build on it. We are all over the globe and capturing the
    feelings of people or to just show each other what people do with technology
    you have in your small corner of the world. Come back here and publish our
    works on the Web some where and link it over to be able to make and explore
    ideas. Do we always walk around and go with our cameras, maybe. But if we
    can capture subject matter while we are in our normal every day lives and
    show how technology is changing our society. Also, what and how do people
    exist and what do they try to accomplish to live. With war and money
    hardships the struggle of the common man.

    Standard Cautions should be taken place. In this day and age, with all the
    lawsuits going on we can't take pics of strangers without there permission.
    Its not the same as it used to be. But if you know them, maybe you can get
    them to agree to you making candids/portraits or just getting there
    permission to use there likeness as a study in Portraiture or lighting.
    Sometimes using a photo as payment to the situation the subject might agree
    to signing a small contract giving permission. I have done this in the
    past. Does it still work in todays greedy times?? People are obsessed with
    modern toys and there is such an extreme gap in level of monetary existence.
    Either you have money to play or you want more money so you can truly enjoy
    life.


    Mark G
    Not4wood
     
    Not4wood, Oct 8, 2007
    #82
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  3. \(not quite so\) Fat Sam

    Not4wood Guest

    Example:

    While on vacation this past summer, while we were on tour in San Diego there
    was an in water boat show. I've always wanted a boat, but its way to much
    of a money sink hole and since I have experience on the water. I also know
    that you always need a second hand to help when needed. None of my friends
    or family are interested so I will except the fact that If I go out and
    purchase a boat I will die out there alone. LOL

    Link here: I call this "Modern Floating Toys"
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/TIA2077/IMG_1619.jpg

    Not4wood
     
    Not4wood, Oct 8, 2007
    #83
  4. \(not quite so\) Fat Sam

    Not4wood Guest

    Shooting information:

    Shooting Mode: Auto
    Shutter Speed 1/800
    Aperture 5.6
    Compensation 0
    ISO Auto
    Focal Length 5.8mm
    White Balance Auto

    Not4wood
     
    Not4wood, Oct 8, 2007
    #84
  5. \(not quite so\) Fat Sam

    Cats Guest

    <snip>

    Let it drop. So far as I can tell, UC is on his/her own in believing
    that photography cannot be art, everyone else accepts that as true.
    UC might be living in their own private bubble, they might be someone
    who is incredibly inflexible (not to mention often incredibly rude),
    or they might be one of the most successfull trolls I've come across.

    Either way, it's a pointless thing to pursue.
     
    Cats, Oct 8, 2007
    #85
  6. \(not quite so\) Fat Sam

    UC Guest

    Still not 'of'.
    No, this is false. You cannot photograph the queen and have it come
    out a photograph of a dog. If you rework the photograph into something
    else, it is no longer a photograph.
     
    UC, Oct 8, 2007
    #86
  7. \(not quite so\) Fat Sam

    UC Guest

    Because it's false, that's why.
     
    UC, Oct 8, 2007
    #87
  8. \(not quite so\) Fat Sam

    UC Guest


    It has nothing to with any of this. You utterly miss the point.
     
    UC, Oct 8, 2007
    #88
  9. \(not quite so\) Fat Sam

    UC Guest

    No, it hasn't.
    More food for thought...
    The fine arts are: painting, sculpture, architecture, etc. That's what
    the expression "fine arts" means.
    Are there non-visual images?
    The fine arts are: painting, sculpture, architecture, etc. That's what
    the expression "fine arts" means.
     
    UC, Oct 8, 2007
    #89
  10. \(not quite so\) Fat Sam

    UC Guest

    There is an unbreakable causal chain in a photograph, between the
    photons leaving the sun (or flash or candle), bouncing off the
    subject, which are then gathered and focussed by the lens, affecting
    the photo-sensitive material. It is called 'photography' to
    distinguish it from painting. The name was invented shortly after the
    process itself was invented (1839).
     
    UC, Oct 8, 2007
    #90
  11. \(not quite so\) Fat Sam

    Robert Coe Guest

    : Shooting information:
    :
    : Shooting Mode: Auto
    : Shutter Speed 1/800
    : Aperture 5.6
    : Compensation 0
    : ISO Auto
    : Focal Length 5.8mm
    : White Balance Auto

    Well, er, what kind of camera? (Some sort of P&S, I assume, since that would
    be a very short focal length for an SLR sensor.)

    Nice picture. Brings back memories. I'm pretty sure I once attended a
    conference at one of those hotels on the left.

    Where did you take it from? A bridge over the lagoon?

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Oct 8, 2007
    #91
  12. \(not quite so\) Fat Sam

    UC Guest

    Try this one:

    http://www.photographyboard.net/images/zoom/zoom-photo/viewsize/Park.jpg
     
    UC, Oct 8, 2007
    #92
  13. \(not quite so\) Fat Sam

    Robert Coe Guest

    : > You said a mouthful, but exactly what I have been eluding to.
    :
    : 'Alluding'

    But without the unnecessary capital "A". If you're going to run with the
    nitpickers in a group like this, you've got to tighten up your game.

    : > Just as our tools & mediums
    :
    : media
    :
    : > have changed over the years, so has the definition of art.
    :
    : No, it hasn't.

    That's not your call to make. But even if we accept your premise, you are, in
    the large, still wrong, since your definition of art remains incomplete in
    either case.

    : > So here's another food for thought.
    :
    : More food for thought...

    But without the unnecessary capital "M".

    : > Why do we refer to
    : > creations from the Renaissance period to be considered Fine Art? Can't
    : > something created today be considered Fine Art as well?
    :
    : The fine arts are: painting, sculpture, architecture, etc. That's what
    : the expression "fine arts" means.

    Fair enough. And "etc." encompasses at least some forms of photography. Just
    as some forms of painting (house painting, for example) probably don't
    qualify.

    : > UC, your photography style reminds me of Monet. He used repeticious
    :
    : Repetitious

    But without the unnecessary capital "R".

    : > pattern to create art, just as the repetion
    :
    : Repetition

    But without the unnecessary capital "R".

    : > in your photos creates a visual image.
    :
    : Are there non-visual images?

    Yes. Tactile images, for example. As in a blind person examining a sculpture.

    : > So if Monet's painting is art why can't a photo that
    : > creates a pleasing visual image simular
    :
    : Similar

    But without the unnecessary capital "S".

    : > to the painting be considered art as well?
    :
    : The fine arts are: painting, sculpture, architecture, etc. That's what
    : the expression "fine arts" means.

    Repetitious.
     
    Robert Coe, Oct 8, 2007
    #93
  14. \(not quite so\) Fat Sam

    Robert Coe Guest

    : > Keeping an open mind, to be able to change and adapt is by far the most
    : > important skill as an artist and of course being new and different.
    : >
    : > Don't forget new technology in listening to music:
    : > Old Mono Radios, The Phonograph, Stereo Radio, Real to Real tape decks,
    : > Eight Track Tapes, Cassette Tapes, VHS Concerts, Portable Cassette Tape
    : > Players, Records released from the original cuttings, CD's, DVD's,
    : > Surround Sound Systems, Flat screen TV's and the latest technology
    : > High Def and Cable and what about multiple channel CD's like SACD or
    : > DVD Audio? Did I leave anything out? See how and what we have lived
    : > thru to be able to even discuss these things. The children of today do
    : > not know what its like to not have MP3 music or an IPod. If we can
    : > adapt and accept the above for our enjoyment, why can't we accept new
    : > media and technology for our creativity???
    : >
    : > Someone telling me that they cant see a Photograph as a work of Art
    : > because there is a lens between the hand and the creation is ridiculous
    : > that the camera is a machine. Forgetting of course that the same hand
    : > created that machine and lens that we are trying to use as a new media
    : > tool for creativity.
    : >
    : > Not4wood
    :
    : It has nothing to with any of this. You utterly miss the point.

    Easy to do, since the point lies entirely in your imagination.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Oct 8, 2007
    #94
  15. \(not quite so\) Fat Sam

    Robert Coe Guest

    : >
    : > : > Cats enlightened us with:
    : > : >
    : > : > > Is he really angry (or arrogant/stupid/trolling etc.) or simply
    : > : > > living in a personal bubble, remote from the rest of us?
    : > : >
    : > : > Probably both :)
    : > : >
    : > : > Koekje
    : > :
    : > : You haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about. Photography
    : > : is NOT art and CANNOT be art.
    : > :
    : > : By the way, this thing is being torn down.
    : > :
    : > :http://www.photographyboard.net/component/option,com_zoom/Itemid,0/pa...
    : > :
    : > : Good thing I photographed it!
    : >
    : > That link points to a flower! Who's it being torn down by? An army of aphids?
    : >
    : > Bob
    :
    : Try this one:
    :
    : http://www.photographyboard.net/images/zoom/zoom-photo/viewsize/Park.jpg

    Ah, that's that shed you showed before. So the Philistines on your local Arts
    Council don't share your appreciation of the ragged roof line? Bummer! If they
    held sway in Pisa, they'd probably tear down the Leaning Tower. ;^)

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Oct 8, 2007
    #95
  16. \(not quite so\) Fat Sam

    UC Guest

    The whole area is being torn down for new baseball stadium.
     
    UC, Oct 8, 2007
    #96
  17. \(not quite so\) Fat Sam

    Robert Coe Guest

    : >
    : > : >
    : > : > : > Cats enlightened us with:
    : > : > : >
    : > : > : > > Is he really angry (or arrogant/stupid/trolling etc.) or simply
    : > : > : > > living in a personal bubble, remote from the rest of us?
    : > : > : >
    : > : > : > Probably both :)
    : > : > : >
    : > : > : > Koekje
    : > : > :
    : > : > : You haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about. Photography
    : > : > : is NOT art and CANNOT be art.
    : > : > :
    : > : > : By the way, this thing is being torn down.
    : > : > :
    : > : > :http://www.photographyboard.net/component/option,com_zoom/Itemid,0/pa...
    : > : > :
    : > : > : Good thing I photographed it!
    : > : >
    : > : > That link points to a flower! Who's it being torn down by? An army of aphids?
    : > : >
    : > : > Bob
    : > :
    : > : Try this one:
    : > :
    : > :http://www.photographyboard.net/images/zoom/zoom-photo/viewsize/Park.jpg
    : >
    : > Ah, that's that shed you showed before. So the Philistines on your local Arts
    : > Council don't share your appreciation of the ragged roof line? Bummer! If they
    : > held sway in Pisa, they'd probably tear down the Leaning Tower. ;^)
    : >
    : > Bob
    :
    : The whole area is being torn down for new baseball stadium.

    In Columbus? The venue of the AAA farm team of our Hated Rivals, the New York
    Yankees? Double Bummer!!

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Oct 8, 2007
    #97
  18. \(not quite so\) Fat Sam

    UC Guest

    No, the Clippers are no longer a farm club of the Yankees. They're
    associated with Washington now.

    http://www.clippersbaseball.com/
     
    UC, Oct 8, 2007
    #98
  19. \(not quite so\) Fat Sam

    Paul Furman Guest

    Unbreakable perhaps but very bendable.
    Of course it's different from painting.
     
    Paul Furman, Oct 8, 2007
    #99
  20. \(not quite so\) Fat Sam

    UC Guest


    ....and therefore not one of the fine arts...
     
    UC, Oct 8, 2007
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