Sony closes 2/3 of its stores in the U.S.

Discussion in 'Digital Cameras' started by RichA, Feb 27, 2014.

  1. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    Now that's the sort of answer I would expect from a well mannered Popinjay.
    There is a better term for you, chose btween schuuck or assohole.
    either, or both wil fit.
     
    PeterN, Mar 6, 2014
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  2. RichA

    Sandman Guest

    I can't understand how you trolls can post an ad hominem and then whine
    when you're treated the same way back.

    If you want to be treated like an adult, behave like one.
     
    Sandman, Mar 6, 2014
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  3. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    follow your own advice.
     
    PeterN, Mar 6, 2014
  4. RichA

    Tony Cooper Guest

    It's difficult to tell if you are just being contentious, or if you
    are actually this unaware of how our language is used.

    If you take your car in for routine maintenance, and - when retrieving
    it - you are told that the hood latch cable had come loose, you would
    naturally expect that the mechanic would have repaired the problem.
    Neither you nor the mechanic would feel that since the dictionary
    definition in M-W does not include the word "repair" that this would
    preclude him from fixing the problem.

    Naturally, if the problem required a replacement part, you would
    expect to be advised before this cost was added to the invoice.

    Likewise, if the person who does the maintenance of your office space
    reported that a window would not close because a screw had worked
    loose and was blocking the track, you would expect him to repair the
    problem.

    Maintenance and repair go hand-in-hand in almost all circumstances.
    Some repairs require approval because of cost considerations, and some
    require the hiring of an outside contractor or service, but repair is
    not excluded from the maintenance function by any definition.
    Of course you can. The common understanding of "maintenance" is the
    upkeep of whatever is being maintained, and this sometimes requires
    repair.

    I don't know the Swedish nomenclature, but office buildings in the US
    often have a "maintenance staff". Part of their function is to repair
    things that are within their ability to repair. There would not be a
    separate "repair staff" for the building upkeep. There might be a
    separate department charged with the repair of certain types of
    equipment, but "maintenance" encompasses upkeep and repair of the
    building. That's one of the reasons that maintenance employees wear
    tool belts and carry tools with them.

    When you try to exclude a meaning of a word because a specific
    reference to that meaning is not included some definition you've
    found, but that meaning is generally attributable to that word, you
    show that you do not understand how language is used.
     
    Tony Cooper, Mar 6, 2014
  5. RichA

    Sandman Guest

    Of course not, given the fact that repairs costs money and I should have
    been notified that repairs was needed for my vehicle apart from the regular
    maintenance. Repairing a broken hood latch cable does not constitute
    maintenance.
    If repairs are included in the charge for the service when the cost of said
    repair is negligable, then he can go right ahead and fix the problem. That
    doesn't make that repair a part of "maintenance" no matter how you want to
    twist and bend the word. I find it hilarious that you started out with
    being all high and mighty about *me* not understanding how English is used
    then go right ahead and flaunt your own ignorance.
    I would expect to be adviced if any cost - be it replacement parts or
    repair billing. You know, when you pay a flat fee for car maintenance, it
    doesn't include "all repairs unless it requires a replacement part". All
    repairs are billed, and the exception would be if the repair shop felt that
    the time cost of the repair was negligable so they didn't feel the need to
    bill me more for it, but that doesn't make the repair part of the
    maintenance of the vehicle.
    Only if repairs is part of the service I am buying from him. It's a pretty
    good example, since we have a maintenance guy that comes over and does
    maintenance on our espresso machine at work. He changes filters and other
    disposable items, but if something is broken, he will notify us and let us
    know if the cost of the repair is part of our service package or not (it
    usually is), but there's another guy that comes over to perform the actual
    repair of the unit.
    No doubt. That is totally irrelevant to whether or not "repairs" is *part*
    of maintenance of not.
    Actually, by all definitions. Maintenance is the act of maintaining
    something in its current condition. If the current condition is broken,
    then a repair does the exact opposite of maintenance - it changes the
    current condition.
    Stop contradicting yourself. If you're "upkeeping" the current condition,
    performing a repair of the current condition would be the exact opposite of
    "upkeeping" it. Repairing changes, maintenance maintains.
    We have magic elks, actually.

    And this is also a good example - our caretakers, or "maintenance staff"
    come around now and then to check on the office space, we report problems,
    and they order the repairs, which are performed by actual professionals,
    such as carpenters or painters. None of our caretakers walk around with a
    screw driver and start fixing hinges or anything. Just last month I
    compalined about the sink being slow to empty, and instead of fetching his
    toolbox, he called in for repair.
    Which is all fine and dandy - but to first call them "maintenance staff"
    and then claim that "repairs" is part of the definition of "maintenance"
    just because one of them owns and know how to operate a screw driver is
    just whacky. You could equally claim that "staff" encompasses the concept
    of "repairs" based on that logic.

    Just because the security staff also handles keycard programming doesn't
    mean that the definition of "security" encompasses "programming".
    Probably not, the maintenance staff would have contacts with several
    professional repair firms for various tasks, which they can get a hold on
    on short ntoice.
    Nope. The "maintenance staff" may be tasked with both the upkeep and some
    repair of the building, which of course doesn't mean that the *word*
    maintenance means repairs as well. It's what the staff is called, which is
    a far cry from the definition of a word. Sometimes, they're called
    "janitors", "caretakers", "groundskeeper", "warden", "porter", "custodian"
    or any other word that is used for a role that is doing many things related
    to taking care of something or someone. None of those words encompass
    "repairs" just because part of their work may include repairs.
    Indeed. Tool belts doesn't define words today either. :)
    Not at all. I am fully aware that many people associate the concept of
    "maintenance" with "repairs", or even associate the word of "janitor" with
    "repairs", but just because two words are closely related due to how they
    are used, that doesn't mean that one can be used to imply the other.

    The word that was used was "unmaintainable". There is no one that reads
    that words and equates that to "unrepairable".

    When your maintenance staff comes to you and say that the left wing of the
    office building is "unmaintainable" you don't instantly think "Oh, it's so
    broken that it can't be fixed", but rather think that there is some factor
    in that building that is making their *maintenance* work hard. Maybe power
    is out? Maybe poisonous gas is leaking? Maybe there's a rat infestation?
    There are many reasons why something can be "unmaintainable", and
    "hard/impossible to repair" isn't one of them. "breaks down all the time"
    could be one - because that means that our maintenance isn't effective.
     
    Sandman, Mar 6, 2014
  6. RichA

    Guest Guest

    then they're even more of a moron for not planning appropriately. they
    might luck out but it will catch up with them eventually.
    there are always exceptions. that doesn't change a thing.

    poor planning is not something to be admired.
    repairs are not maintenance.

    they are the result of *lack* of maintenance, and in some cases bad
    luck, like a tree falling into a house.

    routine maintenance can uncover a potential problem before it becomes a
    serious problem, such as corrosion of wires that if left untouched,
    could result in a fire. it's still maintenance. however, if the power
    failed in the middle of the night, it would be a repair.
    maintenance. obviously.

    if you scratch the sensor in cleaning it, then it's a repair.
    what is cfik in this context? google turns up nothing useful relevant
    to keyboards.
     
    Guest, Mar 6, 2014
  7. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    Crumb Farm In Keyboard. I forgot, I learned about that while a Microsoft
    partner.
     
    PeterN, Mar 6, 2014
  8. RichA

    Sandman Guest

    Ironic for you to claim that. Here is my post:

    Sandman
    Re: Sony closes 2/3 of its stores in the U.S.
    03/06/2014 <>

    "From the Actual Oxford Dictionary of English:

    maintenance noun [ mass noun ] 1 the process of preserving a
    condition or situation or the state of being preserved

    http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/maintenance

    The Oxford Dictionary of English doesn't agree with you."

    Very adult, not argumentative, no animosity, no ad hominems.

    And it was a reply to Eric, you then jumped in to the discussion. The first
    thing you wrote - an ad hominem. And you claim I don't act like an adult?
    That's rich.
     
    Sandman, Mar 6, 2014
  9. RichA

    Guest Guest

    very easily avoided, but if it fucks up your keyboard, it's a repair.

    shaking out the keyboard or vacuuming it is a maintenance task.

    avoiding it is the best solution.
     
    Guest, Mar 6, 2014
  10. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    I apologize. I didn't know a conversation on Usenet was private,
    especially since I didn't see you as an original party.

    In order to prevent me from doing it again, please give us the etiquette
    that permits you to comment on a conversation between two people, while
    making it ill mannered for me to do so. I do not want to violate your
    sense of fairness.
     
    PeterN, Mar 6, 2014
  11. RichA

    Tony Cooper Guest

    Jonas has an odd understanding about Usenet. He evidently thinks
    that he's participating in an email exchange, not an open forum.
     
    Tony Cooper, Mar 7, 2014
  12. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    I cannot say what he thinks, I sometimes question whether he thinks, or
    posts just to push buttons.
     
    PeterN, Mar 7, 2014
  13. RichA

    Eric Stevens Guest

    Breakdown maintenance is rarely the cheapest option when the cost of
    ancillary damage, interruption to production, loss of good will etc is
    taken into account.
     
    Eric Stevens, Mar 7, 2014
  14. RichA

    Eric Stevens Guest

    Jerry Pournelle used to take his keyboards with him into the shower to
    clean them.
     
    Eric Stevens, Mar 7, 2014
  15. RichA

    Guest Guest

    some people suggest putting it in a dishwasher, without soap.

    i say it's easier to avoid it.
     
    Guest, Mar 7, 2014
  16. RichA

    Tony Cooper Guest

    OK, Jonas. You think that you can teach me English usage. This,
    despite the facts that I minored in Journalism as a university
    undergraduate, completed a case study graduate MBA program, was on the
    editorial staff of two university newspapers, worked for two major
    daily newspapers, wrote a newspaper column, served as an editor of a
    magazine, wrote numerous state-approved continuing education modules
    for surgical nurses, prepared training manuals for highly technical
    medical devices, and have managed to communicate effectively in
    English for over seven decades.

    Yep, you'll teach me about the language and how to use it...from the
    back of a pig taking off in flight. Maybe you can take nospam along
    for the flight so he can do one of his market surveys.
     
    Tony Cooper, Mar 7, 2014
  17. RichA

    Sandman Guest

    Apology accepted.
    Privacy was not the concern, the maturity of your post directed at someone
    that wasn't talking to you, is. You didn't respond in kind to me, you
    started the antagonizing, again. I wasn't saying anything about you, or
    even anyting special about Eric, but you had to reply just to troll me
    nevertheless.
    If you evr see me respond to someone in this group that isn't talking to me
    just to add an ad hominem, feel free to call me on it. I'm sure it may have
    happened, and may happen yet again.
     
    Sandman, Mar 7, 2014
  18. RichA

    Sandman Guest

    Only if one were to equate "you then jumped in" to mean "the conversation
    was private". Which of course would be quite a silly conclusion to make.

    The point, as I'm sure you actually know, is that I was posting
    non-argumentative, non-antagonizing material to Eric, just a normal post,
    nothing provocative about it at all. Then Peter "Jumped in" just to add an
    ad hominem.

    He is free to "jump in" to any discussion he wants, I am commenting on the
    content of his post, not that he made a post.

    Peter is the guy that walks up to two guys by the water cooler having a
    conversation and calls one of them an asshole. He's free to join the
    discussion if he wants to, but he doesn't want to, he just want to spew
    insults.
     
    Sandman, Mar 7, 2014
  19. RichA

    Sandman Guest

    Hehe, Tony snipped away all the arguments and reasoned examples and ran
    away...
    I'm not here to teach you anything. I am just pointing out where you're
    ignorant. If you learn something in the process, then that's good I
    suppose, but it's not my intention.
    ANd you still don't know the meaning of "maintenance"? That's pretty
    embarassing.
    Tony, the post you responded to had tons of actual examples, reasoned
    arguments, well thought out responses and was filled with support for my
    position of the argument. Your response here is basically "I won't listen,
    lalalalalala".

    The saying "You can't teach an old dog new tricks" springs to mind. You're
    an old man and set in your ways, your pride doesn't allow for you to see
    things differently.

    But I don't think that's all of the story. You dislike me and your grudge
    and stubbornness towards me doesn't allow you to ever agree with me even if
    I'm correct. That's the reason you snipped my entire post, because you
    can't actually *argue* against any of the points. You know full well that
    just because someone with the job title "maintenance staff" that also does
    occasional repairs doesn't mean that the english word "Maintenance"
    encompasses "repairs", and you know full well that your arguments fell flat
    due to it, so you ignore the counter evidence since you can't actually
    argue your original stance.

    So you get all high and mighty, trying to drag up your CV as if that gives
    credence to your earlier, incorrect, arguments. It doesn't.
     
    Sandman, Mar 7, 2014
  20. RichA

    Tony Cooper Guest

    No, the reason I snipped the entire post is that your arguments were
    so transparently specious that they didn't rise to the level of
    needing rebuttal. Well, that and that you're boringly repetitious.

    You have a good general grasp of English for a non-native speaker, but
    you have trouble understanding how some words are actually used in
    practice. There is a difference between finding a definition of a word
    and knowing when the word can be idiomatically applied. That concept
    continues to elude you.

    As far as not liking you - as you have asserted - I harbor no
    particular dislike of you as a person, but your newsgroup persona is
    that of a pompous popinjay who cannot handle correction where it is
    deserved.
     
    Tony Cooper, Mar 7, 2014
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