Sony has to kick into high gear...

Discussion in 'Sony' started by RichA, Jul 9, 2007.

  1. RichA

    RichA Guest

    The price of the A100 is down to $800 with lens... Time for those new
    releases.
     
    RichA, Jul 9, 2007
    #1
    1. Advertisements

  2. RichA

    Tony Polson Guest


    In Europe, even at their peak, sales of the Sony Alpha 100 never even
    reached the lamentably low sales figures of the Konica Minolta
    Maxxum/Dynax 5D (which were so bad that Konica Minolta baled out of
    the photography market as a result). Japan has been even worse.

    In Japan, for most of this year, the top selling DSLR was the Pentax
    K10D. It is now in second place, having just been overtaken by the
    Olympus E-510. The Sony Alpha 100 did not even make the top 10.

    The Sony "Alpha 1" with 18.7 MP and a 1.1 crop, will be up against
    DSLRs from Nikon and Pentax using exactly the same sensor. I really
    cannot see the Sony selling well against those two brands. Can you?
     
    Tony Polson, Jul 9, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertisements

  3. RichA

    Pete D Guest

    I would be very surprised if Sony let the others use that sensor first,
    maybe even not let them have it for 6-12 months while they get the 1 out
    there, would be a bad market blunder IMHO.
     
    Pete D, Jul 10, 2007
    #3
  4. RichA

    Tony Polson Guest


    Previously, the deal was that Nikon got the Sony-made sensors first,
    followed by other companies (Pentax, Konica Minolta, ...) a few months
    later. The deal will obviously change now that Sony is a manufacturer
    of DSLRs, which was not the case before.

    However, the sales of Sony DSLRs are pitifully low compared with the
    sales of Sony sensors to other manufacturers who sell hugely greater
    numbers of DSLRs. Sony is highly dependent on revenue from selling
    sensors. So I think it would be a very bad market blunder for Sony to
    deny itself profitable sales to Nikon and Pentax in order to sell just
    a few Sony-branded DSLRs with the new sensor, but frightening off
    their best sensor customers in the process.
     
    Tony Polson, Jul 10, 2007
    #4
  5. RichA

    Pete D Guest

    If they are going to win back the Alan Brownes of this world I suspect you
    are wrong, at least a bit.
     
    Pete D, Jul 10, 2007
    #5
  6. Tony-

    What percentage do you guess (or know) are sensor revenues and profits
    to Sony's gross and net?
     
    John McWilliams, Jul 10, 2007
    #6
  7. RichA

    Tony Polson Guest


    I don't know and I wouldn't even hazard a guess about revenue.

    The profit bit is easier, because I know from my contact in Japan that
    Sony's sensor division is hugely profitable, but the Alpha DSLRs and
    lenses are posting very large losses - so far. Sony will obviously
    try hard to make the Alpha line turn in a profit, but surely not at
    the expense of a highly profitable business selling sensors to Nikon,
    Pentax et al.
     
    Tony Polson, Jul 10, 2007
    #7
  8. RichA

    newsmb Guest

    Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it) it's
    not primarily a marketing issue. The cost of developing a new sensor
    and building the fab plant for it runs into the hundreds of millions
    of dollars, and the new sensor will have a life cycle of maybe 3-5
    years. Sony relies heavily on Nikon to generate enough volume to
    offset those costs.
     
    newsmb, Jul 11, 2007
    #8
  9. RichA

    Alan Browne Guest

    I'm not to be won, I'm a prisoner of a lot of high end Minolta glass.
    I also have Stockholm syndrome so just ordered the Carl-Zeiss 135 f/1.8
    for the Minolta A-mount... as I bragged to a friend of mine I learned
    he's already bought the C-Z 85mm f/1.4...

    Both of us agree that these lenses are better served on our Maxxum 9's
    than on my 7D and his A100's (2). We're both looking forward to the
    "pro" spec Sony body in 2008. Whether it matches Tony's prediction or
    not, I'm sure it will be a very good camera.

    Bear in mind that Tony exagerates the comparative positions of the DLSR
    makers like Sony and Pentax. I saw a recent article that claimed Sony
    DSLR's were outselling Olympus. Not sure v. Pentax. All are far behind
    Canon and Nikon.

    Sony is #2 overall in digital cameras and kind of like the revenue
    stream. They will work hardtoget into the SLR revenue stream.

    I won't/can't predict where they will be in 5 years, but they will
    invest like crazy to get share over the next while.

    Cheers,
    Alan
     
    Alan Browne, Jul 11, 2007
    #9
  10. RichA

    RichA Guest

    Kodak was #1. Never made any money at it.....But that's Kodak.
     
    RichA, Jul 11, 2007
    #10
  11. RichA

    Jeff Guest

    Kodak sells their cameras cheap, expecting to make up for it in film sales
    ;).
     
    Jeff, Jul 11, 2007
    #11
  12. RichA

    Tony Polson Guest


    Absolutely. "Enough volume" is not something that Sony will ever be
    able to generate independently of Nikon and Pentax.

    What should greatly concern Sony enthusiasts is that the Sony Alpha
    100 is not selling in any significant numbers, even at prices that are
    competitive with, or even undercut, more basic DSLRs. I have heard
    the sales figures from Japan and Europe, and they must make very
    upleasant reading for Sony executives.

    Sales of the Aplha 100 are as bad as the sales of the Konica Minolta
    DSLRs, on the basis of which Konica Minolta pulled out of photography
    altogether. If Sony cannot sell more DSLRs than K-M did, when the
    DSLR market has almost doubled in size, it cannot be long before
    Sony's high risk DSLR strategy must be reviewed, if it isn't happening
    already.

    So far this year in Japan, the Pentax K10D is the top selling DSLR.
    And here in Europe, the K10D has outsold Pentax' own projections by a
    factor of four. So it isn't just a question of Sony relying on sales
    of sensors to Nikon; Sony relies on sales of sensors to Pentax too.

    I correctly predicted Konica Minolta's demise. I am not ready to
    predict that Sony will pull out of making DSLRs, but the Alpha line is
    making huge losses and it needs further substantial investment to
    bring replacement models to market. If those replacement models don't
    sell as well as they need to, it will be crunch time for Sony Alpha.

    But of course Sony will continue to make sensors - profitably - for
    Nikon and Pentax.
     
    Tony Polson, Jul 11, 2007
    #12
  13. RichA

    frederick Guest

    You have that totally wrong - not in your wildest dreams is the K10d
    leading sales.
    BCN sales figures show that the 400d leads sales, followed by the D40,
    then the D80. Anything from Pentax/Samsung, Sony, Olympus, Panasonic is
    far behind, with Canon and Nikon having combined 85% market share.
    BCN figures are based on POS transactions - actual sales by Japanese
    retailers.
     
    frederick, Jul 12, 2007
    #13
  14. RichA

    Pete D Guest

    The Canons and Nikons no doubt lead all up sales but the K10D has had
    leading D-SLR sales in Japan in some weeks and months this year, they are
    doing pretty well actually, apparently the European sales are doing quite
    well as well.

    Cheers.

    Pete
     
    Pete D, Jul 12, 2007
    #14
  15. RichA

    frederick Guest

    Not from any stats I saw. The 400d has about 27% of dslr sales alone -
    nearly double #2 (d40). Only through D40/D40x/D80/D200 (four products
    competing with Canons two) Nikon is outselling Canon in total sales.
    IIRC, K10d was at about 7% - so about 1/4 of 400d sales.
     
    frederick, Jul 12, 2007
    #15
  16. RichA

    Pete D Guest

    Okely dokely, bored now anyway.

    Bye.
     
    Pete D, Jul 12, 2007
    #16
  17. RichA

    Pete D Guest

  18. RichA

    Tony Polson Guest


    Please don't confuse Frederick by quoting mere *facts*.

    As a Canon shill, only Frederick's *opinions* matter.

    But for those of us who are more interested in the truth, the audited
    figures from authoritative sources in Japan show that the top selling
    DSLR brand in the first six months of this year is Nikon, who are well
    ahead of Canon.

    Pentax comes next (with the K10D the top-selling DSLR of all in th
    first six months this year) closely followed by Olympus, due to strong
    sales of the E-510 which was the top selling DSLR in June 2007.

    Trailing by a very long margin, with just over 2% of the market, is
    Sony, down from an all-too-brief showing of 20% for one month in 2006.

    The figures are authoritative because they come from the only sales
    index that gathers data from photo stores, non-photo superstores and
    online sales, and therefore give the only true overall picture of the
    Japanese DSLR market.
     
    Tony Polson, Jul 12, 2007
    #18
  19. RichA

    frederick Guest

    Listen up will ya:

    IIRC I've never owned a Canon product, not one.
    The "dslrphoto" site is put together by dolts.
    While they do provide a link back to the "Digital Arena" site that they
    got their "statistics" from, they seem not to be interested enough to
    note that the statistics that they are are quoting are "attention
    ranking", (nothing to do with actual sales) explained as:

    "From the number of perusals of the product information page, the number
    of induction to the shop page clicks, the number of perusals of the
    word-of-mouth communication bulletin board and the number etc of
    handling shops, digitalizing the degree of interest for the product of
    the user"

    So, according to you, a click counter on a web page is an authoritative
    source. lol.
     
    frederick, Jul 12, 2007
    #19
  20. RichA

    Tony Polson Guest

    What a charming turn of phrase.
    The vast majority of experienced photographers have owned at least one
    Canon product at some point in their lives.
    I don't ever refer to it, so have no comment to make.

    My figures come from a different source. Because they are uniquely
    authoritative, they have to be paid for and, thanks to non-disclosure
    clauses, are not available for general publication. So you won't
    ever see the figures quoted in detail, in print or on the web.
     
    Tony Polson, Jul 12, 2007
    #20
    1. Advertisements

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.