Sony's expanded DR function really does seem to work

Discussion in 'Sony' started by RichA, Dec 20, 2007.

  1. RichA

    RichA Guest

    I've used the histogram function in software to lift parts of images
    "out of the shadows" and you do see a lot of noise because so few
    photons made it through to illuminate those areas, and I did it with
    their "off" image and I couldn't get as clean as result as their "adv
    3-5" images so IMO, this is more than just area image brightness
    equalization. Sony has something working in the CCD/CMOS that
    actually increases real DR. They had this on the cheapo A100 and I
    was intrigued then. How the images measure up against ones from
    Canon's upper tier cameras should be interesting.

    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydslra700/page19.asp
     
    RichA, Dec 20, 2007
    #1
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  2. RichA

    Bobs Guest


    The a100 Sony applies a gamma adjustment to the image, probably more then 8bit,
    and then outputs it to jpeg. I imagine they play with the range...

    Problem is, the jpegs in the a100 are not that good, and you can do a better job
    with the tone curves in the raw converter.

    I might try to do a comparison and put it on my pbase page. Camera DR -VS- PC
    software.


    I hear the a700 will allow DR with RAW in the camera, but I'd probably still
    like to do it myself...
     
    Bobs, Dec 21, 2007
    #2
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  3. It just tags the raw file. No process happens in camera, the embedded
    large preview JPEG is processed, the raw data is tagged to allow any
    future DRO-aware processor to emulate the settings. At present, this
    just means a simple gamma lift. The analysis and regional adjustment
    function in not present in Sony's IDC raw converter.

    David

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    David Kilpatrick, Dec 21, 2007
    #3
  4. RichA

    Sarina.Sarin Guest

    The notion that Sony has changed the laws of Physics is interesting but
    not something a scientist would entertain. The "expanded" range is not
    sensor development (which it needs to be) but yet more information for
    RAW converters to process as they demozaic the image data.

    The JPEG files are created in-camera which almost guarantees the
    rudumentry processor on-board couldn't possibly come close to what
    dedicated software can do post-processing.

    Sony have something of a history of promising much and delivering little
    in the way of desperately needed improvements with their video cameras.
    Why then should we think anything different with their Minolta technology?
     
    Sarina.Sarin, Dec 21, 2007
    #4
  5. Because the Apical Iridix processor does do something which is not
    available in software - the equivalent of a compressor/limiter/aural
    enhancer in audio terms. The DRO Advanced process is like putting a
    JoeMeek Voice Channel processor in a microphone signal; what software
    does, right now, is equal to using a 32-band graphic equaliser on the
    mic. Very different.

    Same goes for Nikon D-Lighting in the D300/D3 retouch menus (but not in
    the Active form). Sony wins, right now, for on-the-fly enhancement at
    pixel gain level.

    It has nothing to do with Sony. They just bought the latest Iridix chip
    and firmware.

    David

    --
    Icon Publications Ltd, Maxwell Place, Maxwell Lane, Kelso TD5 7BB
    Company Registered in England No 2122711. Registered Office 12 Exchange
    St, Retford, Notts DN22 6BL
    VAT Reg No GB458101463
    Trading as Icon Publications Ltd, Photoworld Club and Troubadour.uk.com
    www.iconpublications.com - www.troubadour.uk.com - www.f2photo.co.uk -
    www.photoclubalpha.com - www.minoltaclub.co.uk
    Tel +44 1573 226032
     
    David Kilpatrick, Dec 22, 2007
    #5
  6. RichA

    Scott W Guest

    Well I am not sure I followed all of what you said, but do you believe
    that there is anything going on in the camera that could not be done
    with the raw file in post processing. From what I read it does not
    seem so.

    Scott
     
    Scott W, Dec 22, 2007
    #6
  7. Yes, there is. The file is scanned and areas are identified as
    'plateaux' of tone with 'topography' - imagine a valley with rough
    ground (shadows with plenty of varied detail) then some smooth slopes up
    to a plateau with lots of rocks (highlights with detail). The Apical
    software can keep the rough ground and the rocks just as they are, but
    lift the entire valley by shortening the smooth slope.

    Software methods just add/multiply values globally, and can not tell the
    difference between insignificant detail (dark values which really are
    shadows, and need to stay dark) and murky but important detail (area
    where the tone is overall too dark, but plenty of frequency and
    amplitude information exists locally, which can be lifted to be more
    visible).

    You would have to lasso different areas by choosing them, and applying
    local brightness and contrast changes to these, to copy what DRO
    Advanced does. It's not the same as Photoshop Highlight/Shadow or Sigma
    Fill Light (etc) which imitate area selection by using large radius
    masking techniques.

    David

    --
    Icon Publications Ltd, Maxwell Place, Maxwell Lane, Kelso TD5 7BB
    Company Registered in England No 2122711. Registered Office 12 Exchange
    St, Retford, Notts DN22 6BL
    VAT Reg No GB458101463
    Trading as Icon Publications Ltd, Photoworld Club and Troubadour.uk.com
    www.iconpublications.com - www.troubadour.uk.com - www.f2photo.co.uk -
    www.photoclubalpha.com - www.minoltaclub.co.uk
    Tel +44 1573 226032
     
    David Kilpatrick, Dec 23, 2007
    #7
  8. RichA

    Paul Furman Guest

    This topic came up in a thread about Nikon D-lighting recently. If you
    check out the Apical web site they explain that the software does pixel
    by pixel tone adjustments which seems to avoid the nasty halo effects of
    most HDR software. If that is done during the raw conversion there
    should be quite an advantage. I'm not sure why you need a special chip
    though, it's just a software application. Perhaps they encrypt the
    software into the chip for copyright protection.
     
    Paul Furman, Dec 25, 2007
    #8
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