"Stone Disk" Blu-ray Has Appeared...!;-)

Discussion in 'Amateur Video Production' started by David Ruether, Sep 20, 2013.

  1. DVD "stone disks" have been around awhile (and I recently
    bought an LG external writer for them for $25 on sale at
    Newegg), but what I REALLY wanted was to be able to write
    M-Disc Blu-rays for videos and for also more serious back-
    ups of other things. For those not familiar with M-Disc,
    the company ( at www.mdisc.com ) produces optical media
    disks that are claimed to last 1,000+ years and to be able
    to survive exposure to both 500-degrees C. heat and long
    term exposure to light - and also to be playable on most
    standard players. The "hitches" are two: an "M-Disc"
    writer capable of writing to these new disks must be used
    to write to them; and the disks cost about $3 each. Also,
    rewritable M-Discs do not exist (and likely never will,
    since the higher-power laser used in the process writes
    to disks that use a material that cannot be changed once
    written to), and some people report problems writing to
    them, resulting in expensive "coasters" (albeit ones that
    are "see-through"...;-). LG makes writers that can write
    to these disks, and they are generally fairly cheap (look
    for the "M-Disc" logo on the front of the writer in
    pictures, since there is often no mention of this
    capability in the specs). These writers will also write
    to all standard disk types, and will handle all the
    standard file types. Perhaps, finally, here may be a good
    medium for archiving digital material long-term...;-)
    "WHEW!", if true...;-)
    --DR
     
    David Ruether, Sep 20, 2013
    #1
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  2. Getting forgetful, I forgot this: More on the Blu-ray disks
    is here:
    www.mdisc.com/millenniata-celebrates-completion-of-blu-ray-optical-disc
    --DR
     
    David Ruether, Sep 20, 2013
    #2
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  3. David Ruether

    Paul Guest

    I find a disconnect, between "500C stable", and the fact
    the disc still uses Polycarbonate.

    http://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/company-creates-dvd-format-made-to-last-1000-years/

    The temperature characteristics of Polycarbonate are here.
    115C upper working temperature, 155C melting point.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycarbonate

    At 500C, the Polycarbonate is gone, leaving nothing but a
    cloud of gas around the remaining "rock" layer. If the rock
    layer is not self-supporting...

    It's really a question of how long Polycarbonate lasts.

    A look at "chemical resistance" table for Polycarbonate
    does not inspire confidence either. While the disc may be
    a "rock" disc, you still have to protect the Polycarbonate
    portion.

    To get to 1000 years, that storage container for the discs,
    had better be a good one.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Sep 20, 2013
    #3
  4. David Ruether

    HerHusband Guest

    David,
    I researched M-disc when it first came out a couple years ago.
    Unfortunately, at only 4.7GB per disc it would take more than 24 discs just
    to back up my home movies. That's cost and time prohibitive. I could buy
    another external hard drive for backups instead and have more capacity.

    If the 25GB M-disc's become a reality at a reasonable cost, it might be a
    workable option. Although, I would still need five discs just for my home
    movies.

    For now, I make multiple backups and use "Exact File" to periodically
    verify the original data has not been corrupted (in which case I would
    restore from one of the backups).

    Anthony Watson
    www.watsondiy.com
    www.mountainsoftware.com
     
    HerHusband, Sep 20, 2013
    #4
  5. Good points, all..., but even so, it looks likely that these
    may last FAR longer than other media (and methods) now available
    now for archiving (if stored carefully), and at around $3 per
    Blu-ray disk, it is also fairly cost-effective...;-)
    --DR
     
    David Ruether, Sep 20, 2013
    #5
  6. They are available now, for about $3/disk, so for about $15
    for media, you have a backup that may outlast all of your
    hard-drives by a good bit...;-)
    Good method! I use a similar one...;-) But, it would be nice
    to have an easy, transportable, universally-and-easily-playable
    method for archiving/showing video material. When I shot video
    weddings and provided DVDs, I did inform the clients that they
    were very different from "pressed" disks, and would likely
    not last very long (unlike VHS tape), and encouraged them to
    copy the disk to computer and to make multiple back-ups of
    the ISO file(s) resulting so that they could replace aging
    disks that would no longer play. "Stone" disks likely make
    such conversations unnecessary...;-)
    --DR
     
    David Ruether, Sep 20, 2013
    #6
  7. David Ruether

    HerHusband Guest

    David,
    There would be advantages to a storage medium that can't be erased or
    altered the way a hard drive can.

    It is rare, but I have had a few instances where a file was corrupted
    without my knowledge and that file was propagated through my backups before
    I discovered it.

    Do you know any place you can buy the m-disc blu-ray drive and media?

    Even though I'll probably keep my current method, it couldn't hurt to have
    another redundant backup.

    Anthony
     
    HerHusband, Sep 21, 2013
    #7
  8. Basically everywhere that drives and media are sold. It's not that rare
    these days.
     
    Gene E. Bloch, Sep 21, 2013
    #8
  9. David Ruether

    HerHusband Guest

    Gene,
    I see the 4.7GB M-disc drives, but not the 25GB drives David was
    mentioning. I checked NewEgg.com and Amazon.com, albeit rather briefly.

    Anthony Watson
    www.watsondiy.com
    www.mountainsoftware.com
     
    HerHusband, Sep 22, 2013
    #9
  10. This site, which seems official,

    http://www.mdisc.com/millenniata-celebrates-completion-of-blu-ray-optical-disc/

    says BRMD (I figure that's a reasonable abbreviation) will ship in
    August 2013.

    Maybe they were overly optimistic.

    I didn't see any players and recorders in my Google search, but I didn't
    try very hard.
     
    Gene E. Bloch, Sep 22, 2013
    #10
  11. David Ruether

    Mike S. Guest

    The only drives that explicitly offer M-Disc support right now are recent
    LG burners bearing the M-Disc logo.

    Initially it was said that M-Disc BDr burning would be added via a
    manufacturer firmware update, but recently I read a blurb alleging that
    the drives would burn them using the original factory firmware.
     
    Mike S., Sep 23, 2013
    #11
  12. David Ruether

    Brian Guest

    At $3 for 25 Gb of storage is cheaper than using 30 to 50 cent DVD's. At
    the moment I'm storing my data on external Hard drives. Anything important
    is stored on two different ext hard drives.

    With the cost of blu ray drives and players dropping a lot I'm surprised
    that more people don't use blu-ray. You can still read and write DVD and CD
    using a blu-ray drive or player.
     
    Brian, Sep 23, 2013
    #12
  13. David Ruether

    Brian Guest

    I often wonder how they can claim that something can last as long as 1000
    years when it has not been proved.
    I have found that some things exceed the life time claim such as VHS tapes.
    They did claim the floppy disks had a long life but sadly that data on the
    discs does not last long but the disks can still be written to.
    The oldest records seem to be the ones carved in stone, but maybe in the
    future many years from now someone will find a M-Disc still in good
    condition at the bottom of old rubbish.
     
    Brian, Sep 23, 2013
    #13
  14. I saw them listed FS on the www.mdisc.com site for $30/10 at
    http://www.mdisc.com/catalog/
    --DR
     
    David Ruether, Sep 23, 2013
    #14
  15. Baked clay has been pretty good too :)
     
    Gene E. Bloch, Sep 23, 2013
    #15
  16. David Ruether

    j Guest

    It looks like advertising excess:

    M Disk only claims the data layer is good up to 500 C

    http://www.mdisc.com/uploads/M-DISC_1sheet_Rock_Like_vF.pdf

    Testing is only done at 80C:

    http://www.mdisc.com/uploads/M-DISC_1sheet_DataLayer_vF.pdf

    On another note, polycarbonate has only fair UV resistance. Exterior
    polycarbonate panels have a UV blocking top layer, one could assume such
    a layer would block the BLU rays.

    Jeff
     
    j, Sep 24, 2013
    #16
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