Storm at sunset

Discussion in 'Photography' started by PeterN, Jul 26, 2013.

  1. PeterN

    PeterN Guest

    PeterN, Jul 26, 2013
    #1
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  2. These are questions for information not criticisms.

    I take it that the grainyness and long exposure (making the boats blur) are
    deliberate choices, what was your intent there?

    It seems monochrome (black/orange) to my eyes, was the scene really like
    that or was it done in processing. If so how and why?

    David
     
    David Hare-Scott, Jul 26, 2013
    #2
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  3. PeterN

    Savageduck Guest

    Savageduck, Jul 26, 2013
    #3
  4. PeterN

    MC Guest


    The burryness of the boats, had the image intention been executed
    correctly, could have add some "drama" and/or atmosphere and I do not
    have a problem with those. However, the grainyness is very poorly
    managed and, truth be told, adds nothing to image, whatsoever.


    The "why" bit is easy. Like most post processing, to try and "correct"
    things that did not turn out as intended or, as I suggest may be the
    case here, to over-dramatise a what may have been a somewhat bland
    image.

    Had the ambient light been as orange as the image suggests, the
    buildings and boats would have, at least, picked up on some of that
    orange. It just looks all too fake.

    MC
     
    MC, Jul 26, 2013
    #4
  5. PeterN

    PeterN Guest

    i have been experimenting with long exposure. The orange was real. the
    gray clouds showed more detail in reality then was captured.
    I will post the NEF file for you guys to play with. All comments are
    appreciated.
     
    PeterN, Jul 27, 2013
    #5
  6. PeterN

    PeterN Guest

    PeterN, Jul 27, 2013
    #6
  7. PeterN

    PeterN Guest

    I welcome constructive criticism. When one of my images sucks, we can
    all learn from it.

    To amplify, I am trying to learn long exposure. In this case I was
    hoping to catch a lightning bolt from the storm. There is another image
    where the lightning was captured, but it was ball lightning. I don't
    think I retained that image. I try to
    Yes, sometimes I do that in post, but in this case, I did not. I was
    attempting to show the shades of gray that I recall during the shoot.
     
    PeterN, Jul 27, 2013
    #7
  8. PeterN

    Savageduck Guest

    OK! I have been toying with this, and I know that you are experimenting
    with long exposures combined with low ISO (in this case ISO 50 for 4
    seconds @ f/32).
    As some others have asked; to what purpose?
    Especially in this case I fail to see the reason for the experiment.
    The smoothing of wave movement you said you were looking for in your
    earlier thread isn't there to be smoothed. The mast movement in the
    trimaran is still there with the 4 second exposure. The f/32 is
    overkill in this light.
    If you had gone for a fairly standard exposure using ISO 200 and
    f/8-16, you should have captured a pretty decent sunset across the
    harbor. Your result is a mess and an opportunity for a pleasing image
    lost.

    As much as I have tried I cannot fix this image to make it in anyway
    pleasing to my eye.
    I don't understand why you insist on dropping the ISO down to 50, and
    your heavy hand on stopping down the lens when you have said you are
    using a var-ND, and I assume you used it in this case. As I have said
    before, you are doing something very wrong in this long exposure
    experiment.
     
    Savageduck, Jul 27, 2013
    #8
  9. PeterN

    Savageduck Guest

    Here is my best effort which includes a crop to remove the trimaran. It
    remains a wishy-washy image.
    < https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/FileChute/DSC6238_5473-E1w.jpg >
     
    Savageduck, Jul 27, 2013
    #9
  10. PeterN

    Tony Cooper Guest

    Tony Cooper, Jul 27, 2013
    #10
  11. PeterN

    Savageduck Guest

    Funny I thought of saying that when Peter posted his initial rendition,
    but I stayed quiet until he posted the NEF.
    ....and there is nothing fixable in that NEF. His experiment didn't work.
    See what I mean? That is beyond redemption.

    ....and if there was a way to add Elvis (the purple velvet variety)
    Peter is sure to do it.
     
    Savageduck, Jul 27, 2013
    #11
  12. PeterN

    Robert Coe Guest

    On 2013-07-26 21:14:59 -0700, Tony Cooper <> said:
    :
    : > On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 20:57:46 -0700, Savageduck
    : >
    : >> On 2013-07-26 20:42:58 -0700, Savageduck <[email protected]{REMOVESPAM}me.com> said:
    : >>
    : >>> On 2013-07-26 19:12:37 -0700, PeterN <> said:
    : >>>
    : >>>> On 7/26/2013 6:04 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    : >>>>> On 2013-07-26 14:01:14 -0700, PeterN <> said:
    : >>>>>
    : >>>>>> Went to do a sunset shoot, and got this.
    : >>>>>>
    : >>>>>> <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/storm arriving at Port Washington.jpg>
    :
    :
    :
    : Just
    :
    : made
    :
    : a
    :
    : levels
    : >>>>>>
    : >>>>>> adjustment and ran it through Topaz Adjust 5 & DXO
    : >>>>>> FilmPack with Velvia 50 adjustment.
    : >>>>>
    : >>>>> Ummm...
    : >>>>> At this stage I think it might best for me to hold my tongue.
    : >>>>>
    : >>>>
    : >>>> I hope somebody has a better solution to the gray issue.
    : >>>>
    : >>>> <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/_DSC6238_5473.NEF>
    : >>>
    : >>> OK! I have been toying with this, and I know that you are experimenting
    : >>> with long exposures combined with low ISO (in this case ISO 50 for 4
    : >>> seconds @ f/32).
    : >>> As some others have asked; to what purpose?
    : >>> Especially in this case I fail to see the reason for the experiment.
    : >>> The smoothing of wave movement you said you were looking for in your
    : >>> earlier thread isn't there to be smoothed. The mast movement in the
    : >>> trimaran is still there with the 4 second exposure. The f/32 is
    : >>> overkill in this light.
    : >>> If you had gone for a fairly standard exposure using ISO 200 and
    : >>> f/8-16, you should have captured a pretty decent sunset across the
    : >>> harbor. Your result is a mess and an opportunity for a pleasing image
    : >>> lost.
    : >>>
    : >>> As much as I have tried I cannot fix this image to make it in anyway
    : >>> pleasing to my eye.
    : >>> I don't understand why you insist on dropping the ISO down to 50, and
    : >>> your heavy hand on stopping down the lens when you have said you are
    : >>> using a var-ND, and I assume you used it in this case. As I have said
    : >>> before, you are doing something very wrong in this long exposure
    : >>> experiment.
    : >>
    : >> Here is my best effort which includes a crop to remove the trimaran. It
    : >> remains a wishy-washy image.
    : >> < https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/FileChute/DSC6238_5473-E1w.jpg >
    : >
    : > My God! My eyes!
    :
    : Funny I thought of saying that when Peter posted his initial rendition,
    : but I stayed quiet until he posted the NEF.
    : ...and there is nothing fixable in that NEF. His experiment didn't work.
    :
    : > Is there a way to add Elvis?
    :
    : See what I mean? That is beyond redemption.
    :
    : ...and if there was a way to add Elvis (the purple velvet variety)
    : Peter is sure to do it.

    What are you guys going to say if Peter gets lucky one of these times and
    comes up with an interesting effect? That he should pitch it because it
    resulted from a silly series of experiments? I don't think this line is likely
    to lead anywhere either, but I've had enough screwball shots turn out well
    that I'd be wary of ruling it out.

    At least Peter admits that he's just hacking around to see where it all leads.
    If he posted only his hits and never his misses, his efforts might seem a lot
    different.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Jul 27, 2013
    #12
  13. PeterN

    Savageduck Guest

    There is nothing wrong with experimenting, but when, in the face of the
    obvious, the result continues to be less than satisfactory, and the
    numbers in the EXIF give the reason, the experiment serves little
    purpose. There are others who have done the long exposure thing
    successfully, but Peter hasn't stumbled on the working formula yet. For
    now he is looking for the "magnificent miracle", and I have no doubt
    that with the right scene and circumstances it might happen. I have had
    similar "magnificent miracles", but they were accidents, not deliberate
    and repeatable.
    Peter tells us his style and intent leans toward the abstract and while
    that produces some interesting images it also produces a high
    percentage of failures. In this current series of long exposure
    experiments Peter persists, and the results continue to fail for some
    fairly obvious reasons. I have given my reasons for those, in my
    opinion, failures.
    ....and I have done my share of hacking around with HDR, long exposure
    (without the benefit of a Var-ND), and high ISO/low light, all with
    mixed results, but I have taken the lessons learned and done my best to
    apply what I learned to get results I which satisfy my taste, again
    with mixed results.

    Peter has had the courage to share his experiments with us, and invited
    our comments. I have tried to provide constructive criticism without
    derision, but I am not going to heap praise where that is not going to
    help the experiment. All I can do is express my opinion, and/or see if
    there is a possible PP fix when the RAW file has been provided. From
    there it is up to Peter to accept or reject what I have said. In the
    case of this particular image my opinion is to be found above.

    Now how about your input so Peter will have another opinion and/or
    possible solution for what he is trying to achieve, rather than nit
    pick mine.
     
    Savageduck, Jul 27, 2013
    #13
  14. PeterN

    dadiOH Guest

    It has to be mounted on black velvet first :)

    --

    dadiOH
    ____________________________

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    Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
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    dadiOH, Jul 27, 2013
    #14
  15. PeterN

    dadiOH Guest

    He needs to study the images from - what's his name? Gianni? Long
    exposures are his schtick. The main difference is that they are long
    exposures of *static* objects and *moving* water. That and general
    composition.

    --

    dadiOH
    ____________________________

    Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
    Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
    Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
     
    dadiOH, Jul 27, 2013
    #15
  16. PeterN

    Tony Cooper Guest

    I dunno about that. Failures can just be steps toward success.
    Success and failure in that category is very subjective. What others
    may consider a success is just not quite as bad a failure to me.
     
    Tony Cooper, Jul 27, 2013
    #16
  17. PeterN

    Savageduck Guest

    Exactly. There is a time and place for everything and Giovanni is
    masterful at what he produces using long exposures matched with the
    right subject.
    <
    http://www.nostraischia.it/ischia-foto-fotografia/forio-costa-tramonto/14171/
    ....and even my feeble efforts at capturing water in motion with long
    exposures get closer to the concept.
    BTW: these were also somewhat experimental as I had never done this
    sort of thing before.
    < https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/FileChute/DSC0991-E1w.jpg >
    < https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/FileChute/DSC1007-E1w.jpg >
    < https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/FileChute/DSC1002-E1w.jpg >
     
    Savageduck, Jul 27, 2013
    #17
  18. PeterN

    dadiOH Guest

    I think you nailed those pretty well...exposure long enough to give the
    sense of motion to the water, not so long as to turn it into a white blob.

    All of themare quite nice but I particularly liked #3. Except for the
    unfortunate twigs at lower right :(

    --

    dadiOH
    ____________________________

    Winters getting cold & #er? Tired of the rat race?Taxes out of hand? Maybe
    just ready for a change?
    Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
     
    dadiOH, Jul 27, 2013
    #18
  19. PeterN

    J. Clarke Guest

    I just had a notion. Would take a night with just the right amount of
    moon I think, and maybe an ND filter and stopped way down, but I wonder
    what the result would be of a shot that includes a full tide cycle in a
    single time exposure. Unfortunately I'm not close enough to a tidal
    body to be likely to have a chance of trying it out before I forget the
    idea.
     
    J. Clarke, Jul 27, 2013
    #19
  20. PeterN

    PeterN Guest

    PeterN, Jul 27, 2013
    #20
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