Swedes curb rampant downloading - BBC report

Discussion in '35mm Cameras' started by Tony Polson, Jul 2, 2005.

  1. Tony Polson

    Tony Polson Guest

    Swedes curb rampant downloading

    Swedes can no longer freely download copyrighted material
    Sweden has outlawed the downloading of copyrighted movies, games and
    music in an attempt to curb rampant piracy.

    (read the whole article at:)
    Tony Polson, Jul 2, 2005
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  2. Yes....The real problem is that there is no way to effectively enforce these
    laws. I liken it to someone leaving a wallet on the sidewalk with money in
    it. There are some who would send it back to its rightful owner with the
    money untouched. But there are others who wouldn't, and there is no way to
    force the finders to do the right thing. What annoys me, is that I can't
    find out how much money to send to whom when I want to use some copyrighted
    item. IOW, the music (in my case I use a lot of copyrighted music) doesn't
    say on it: "Please send $5.00 to Jones publishing company for the right to
    make one copy and/or change of this music before June 1st, 2025." So, even
    though I would be glad to pay for it, I can't. Or, at least, I can't without
    going through Hell to find out how.
    William Graham, Jul 2, 2005
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  3. Tony Polson

    Slack Guest

    I hope that was a joke. Surely, you can't be /that/ dullard.
    Slack, Jul 2, 2005
  4. I'm, afraid I am....Please explain to me why you think so. You know, I am
    chiefly annoyed by the fact that the publishers tacitly assume that everyone
    intends to cheat them. They can't believe that there is anyone who would
    actually pay for the privilege of rearranging their music for his own little
    group. They even go to the trouble of hiring roving sleuths to frequent the
    bars and bistros listening for their music being played, so they can bust
    the bar owners for using their stuff without a license. Of course, bar
    owners actually make a living out of it. In my case, I just rearrange music
    for a hobby, and don't make a cent.
    But nothing gives me a burning desire to cheat someone more than the
    tacit assumption that I will cheat them. If they really believe that I will
    cheat them, and make it hard for me to not cheat them, well, then I am
    certainly glad to do so.
    William Graham, Jul 2, 2005
  5. Tony Polson

    Slack Guest

    Unbelievable. These are, for the most part, retail products, you
    purchase them where a normal, law abiding person would: a retail store.

    If you're a thief, fine, but don't try to cloak it in your
    self-righteous BS.
    Slack, Jul 2, 2005
  6. Oh. For a while there, I thought you knew something that I didn't. I see now
    that it's the other way around. You obviously don't understand my problem.
    You see, the music I buy in the, "retail store" just doesn't cut it. It is
    probably a piano piece, and I probably found it in a tub at a used book
    store, and it's probably 30 years old, and the publisher doesn't exist
    anymore. My problem is that I don't want piano music. - What I want is the 5
    parts for a horn ensemble like the Canadian Brass, or the Pacific Brass. I
    don't even know whether this music exists. So, I have to create it from the
    piano music, or from the original people who got it from the original
    composer. I am adept at doing this, so I buy it, bring it home and enter it
    into my Encore program on my computer. (This is a copyright violation, right
    off the bat) Then I listen to it a few times on playback, and, if I like
    what I hear, I begin the task of rearranging it for the five piece band
    ensemble. (another copyright violation) When I am done (several hours later)
    I send it to the group in question, and, if I have done a good job, they
    will perform it for the public in a theatre lobby, or a gazebo in the park,
    or somewhere, and my reward is just hearing my work performed.
    William Graham, Jul 2, 2005
  7. This works well enough if what you want is the latest top-40 hit or
    New York Times bestseller. But a great many of the CDs, books,
    etc. that I have I *can't* buy another copy of because no publisher is
    currently offering them.

    For that matter, editors assembling anthologies of old fiction
    routinely have trouble locating the owner of the rights to stories
    they want to reprint.

    I'm not super-especially in favor of theft; but thinking that you can
    just go to the store and buy another copy of whatever it is you have
    is amazingly naive.
    David Dyer-Bennet, Jul 2, 2005
  8. Yes. Try finding the Soldiers Chorus from Faust arranged for a 5 piece horn
    ensemble at your local music store. (I just finished this yesterday)
    William Graham, Jul 2, 2005
  9. Tony Polson

    G.T. Guest

    Have you not heard of a thing called public domain. Copyrights do expire
    and works can be abandoned.

    G.T., Jul 2, 2005
  10. Yes, and that's fine, if the stuff I want is from before 1923.

    But most of it isn't.
    David Dyer-Bennet, Jul 2, 2005
  11. Tony Polson

    G.T. Guest

    Copyrights don't need to be that old to be abandoned.

    G.T., Jul 2, 2005
  12. Tony Polson

    Rox-off Guest

    I read an article recently where it was stated that there is now more
    money being made selling fake DVD's and CD's than there is being made in
    the sale of drugs. No bull.

    Think about it. The market is huge, the resources are freely available and
    the fat cat producers can do shit about it because they price themselves
    out of the market.

    It's about time that artists started producing their own stuff and selling
    it themselves (at a price that counterfeiters can't beat).
    Rox-off, Jul 2, 2005
  13. Tony Polson

    Justin Thyme Guest

    I don't download a lot of music, but what I have downloaded I have done so
    because it is no longer in print. I would buy it on CD (or vinyl for that
    matter) if it could be purchased like that. I am prepared to pay for it, I
    just can't. So what do I do?
    I have an old computer that isn't capable of running any version of windows
    greater than 3.1 - MS no longer supply 3.1 but it is still copyrighted. it
    _can_ be downloaded but that is illegal. So do I consign the computer to the
    scrap heap or do I pirate 3.1?
    I want to learn how to play a piece of music but the publishers no longer
    print sheet music for it (lets assume it is a piece from the 70's - still
    very much in copyright, but very likely to no longer be published). I find a
    library or a friend that has it - do I photocopy it?
    I want some reference material from a book that is now out of print, but not
    old enough to be public domain. Do I photocopy the relevant sections when I
    borrow it from the library?
    To think that everything that is copyrighted is available to be purchased in
    a retail store is totally naive. Personally I think there need to be
    provisions in copyright law that allow for free copying if the
    publisher/copyright holder has published an item, but is no longer making
    copies available. The publisher doesn't rescind copyright, and of course
    still has the right to reproduce the item for a fee if they wish, but if
    they don't make reproductions available then they shouldn't be able to
    pursue those who do make copies for personal use (not for resale) for
    infringing copyright. Such a provision obviously isn't suitable for limited
    production items like artwork or photographic works, but should be
    applicable to published music, texts and software.
    Justin Thyme, Jul 2, 2005
  14. Tony Polson

    Charlie Self Guest

    Pret' near. And if they are abandoned, who do the copyright holders
    notify and where can the rest of the world find the information?
    Copyrights these days are not abandoned. They simply run out. Before
    the latest iteration of the copyright law, in the U.S., copyrights
    could be extended to double their lives. That is no longer possible,
    but the original life is about double what the extended life used to
    be, so it doesn't much matter.
    Charlie Self, Jul 2, 2005
  15. Tony Polson

    Yongwoo.Shin Guest

    In many country, rampant piracies of copyrighted materials have been
    committed. I think intellectual rights should be preserved. Without it,
    we can not be guaranted to use any of infra provided by various act.
    Nobody gives efforts to make something new and innovative. For more
    brilliant future, rampant piracies of copyrighted material should be
    Yongwoo.Shin, Jul 2, 2005
  16. Tony Polson

    Paul H. Guest

    I was once a victim of rampant downloading: While I was out on the town one
    night, a group of toughs knocked me to the ground, rifled my pockets, and
    took my PDA, my mp3 player and even my digital watch. While a couple of
    them held me down, several of the others stuck cables into every conceivable
    orifice of my equipment, occasionally muttering things like, "Ahhh...fresh
    data...", in an almost sensual way. When they had finished ravaging my
    gizmos, they cavalierly tossed them onto my prostrate form as their evident
    leader sneeringly remarked, "And you thought the Digital Millenium
    Copyright Act would protect you? Fool." He threw back his head, and in a
    basso profundo voice issued a hellish laugh which sounded a lot like,
    "Mmmmwooo ha ha ha ha ha!" Then the group melted into the night, leaving
    me, as the tabloids say, "feeling violated."

    Thank God those stalwart defenders of liberty, the Swedes, are finally doing
    something about the problem!
    Paul H., Jul 2, 2005
  17. Tony Polson

    Charlie Self Guest

    Yeah, they should. That's not what we're talking about. The worst
    offenders against copyright are the Communist Chinese, followed in
    direct order by the various Communist countries: getting most of them
    to even admit intellectual rights EXIST is a major chore.
    Charlie Self, Jul 2, 2005
  18. Tony Polson

    G.T. Guest

    Quit being so anal. If no one is selling something than use it as you see
    fit as obviously no one cares. If you make a ton of money off something
    then I'm sure the copyright holder will come crawling out of the woodwork.
    Otherwise, all the above sounds like fair use to me.

    And about Windows 3.1, run Linux on that old machine, you'll be much

    G.T., Jul 2, 2005
  19. But you have to conclusively prove anything newer *is* public domain,
    you can't prove it just based on a date.
    David Dyer-Bennet, Jul 2, 2005
  20. Exactly....And the expiration date should be printed on every work
    published. Otherwise, how can you expect people to know to whom, and how
    much, they should pay? It isn't bad enough that they expect us to pay, but
    they also expect us to do the research to find out! As I say, it's like the
    wallet left lying on the street. If I pick it up, they will arrest me if I
    don't investigate the ownership to its natural conclusion......
    William Graham, Jul 2, 2005
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