Synergy Batteries -- Can anyone comment?

Discussion in 'Digital SLR' started by Joel Connor, Jul 6, 2010.

  1. Joel Connor

    Peter Guest


    John, I concede.
    I strongly suspect you are an expert in self discharge.
    From your postings I have seen you do it frequently.
    <G>
     
    Peter, Jul 7, 2010
    #21
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  2. Joel Connor

    Peter Guest


    I know of nobody who is being forced to read my postings. Do as you see
    fit. Somehow I won't feel very punished.
     
    Peter, Jul 7, 2010
    #22
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  3. Joel Connor

    J. Clarke Guest

    You threatening to put someone in your killfile is like Kate Beckinsale
    threatening to give somebody a BJ.
     
    J. Clarke, Jul 7, 2010
    #23
  4. Nor will anyone miss out on reading any useful information from you if they
    do killfile you. You haven't posted anything useful for anyone yet for as
    long as you've been posting. I doubt you're going to magically come up with
    something useful in the future as well.

    You is what you is. That's not going to change.

    "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." -
    Elbert Hubbard
     
    Outing Trolls is FUN!, Jul 7, 2010
    #24
  5. Joel Connor

    SMS Guest

    LOL. Funny, but he's wrong as usual. The self-discharge rate of a Li-Ion
    cell is around 4% a month. In a laptop battery pack there is additional
    circuitry that consumes another 3% or so a month, but a Li-Ion camera
    battery pack (not the newer smart batteries with a CPU) consumes very
    little extra power from the internal protection circuitry. The thermal
    diode is not using any power when the battery is out of the camera.
     
    SMS, Jul 7, 2010
    #25
  6. Joel Connor

    Peter Guest


    whoosh
     
    Peter, Jul 7, 2010
    #26
  7. Joel Connor

    Dave Cohen Guest

    You are missing an important observation made earlier my Mr. Connor. The
    cells are superior to eneloops since they are 1.25v as opposed to the
    measly 1.25v of eneloops.

    Sanyo didn't need rocket scientists to claim a unique process, just a
    patent (which I assume the have).
    I'm using Eneloop and Kodak pre-charged. Can't see much difference, both
    are excellent at holding their charge.

    While I'm posting, will someone tell me how I can determine who owns or
    doesn't own a camera in this group.
     
    Dave Cohen, Jul 7, 2010
    #27
  8. Joel Connor

    SMS Guest

    Getting a patent is easy. Defending it is the hard part.

    The cause of self-discharge in Ni-Cad and NiMH batteries has been well
    known since they were first invented--the plates swell and press against
    the separator. You can reduce the swelling by depositing less active
    material on the plates, but this reduces capacity. The goal in NiMH
    batteries was always higher capacity. Sanyo made a decision to reduce
    the capacity and decrease the self-discharge. I wonder if anyone is
    actually paying them royalties or licensing fees for this.
    A P&S or a D-SLR?
     
    SMS, Jul 7, 2010
    #28
  9. The ones I use have a nominal voltage of 3.7V and a fully charged
    voltage of 4.2V.
     
    Chris Malcolm, Jul 7, 2010
    #29
  10. Joel Connor

    SMS Guest

    Yes that's correct. The no-load fully-charge voltage of Li-Ion falls to
    3.6-3.7 volts quickly under load. One advantage of the Li-Ion batteries
    is that the voltage is proportional to the remaining charge so an
    accurate battery gauge is possible. With AA cells, the remaining battery
    capacity is less clear because it's so dependent on the type of AA cells
    being used.

    NiMH cells have a very non-linear discharge curve while manganese and
    lithium non-rechargeables are linear, but with different voltages.

    The battery voltage indicator in CHDK is a useful feature but it would
    be nice if there was a CHDK feature that let you set the battery type
    and mAH capacity and provided a gauge based on that, that used a look-up
    table rather than showing a linear percentage based on voltage. Alas
    that's a complicated thing to do, and at least what CHDK provides is
    better than what Canon provides on AA powered cameras. On Li-Ion powered
    cameras the CHDK battery indicator is very good but you want to be sure
    to set the voltage levels properly or you'll wonder why a fully charged
    Li-Ion battery is only at 90% (with the default setting).
     
    SMS, Jul 7, 2010
    #30
  11. Joel Connor

    Dave Cohen Guest

    I won't question your comments on how these things are made since I
    don't know. However, using the same capacity rating (around 2100 mah),
    eneloops clearly outperform the normal NiMH of same capacity for shelf
    life, so I assume they are doing something different. I normally shoot
    very infrequently and I've left cells in the camera for over a year.
    When I first got the eneloops I ran them down in a Canon A95 over a
    three week period and got an amazing 600+ shots (very little flash, very
    little lcd use). After that I got 300+ within a year, after that I
    didn't keep track (after that the A95 went belly up and I'm back to my
    old A40).

    When the eneloop first came out, I did read they had been licensed to
    others. As for asserting/defending patents, that's how lawyers make a
    living (and a very good living at that).
     
    Dave Cohen, Jul 8, 2010
    #31
  12. Joel Connor

    SMS Guest

    I use a lot of eneloops around the house, remote controls, Bluetooth
    mice, and my kids A570 Canon cameras. Great product.

    OTOH, I still greatly prefer Li-Ion batteries. The self-discharge is
    about the same, around 3% for non-micro-controller equipped packs, and a
    little more for smart batteries, which compares favorable with eneloops,
    but Li-Ion batteries have some desirable characteristics that NiMH
    batteries can't touch, especially much more accurate battery gauging. A
    Li-Ion pack will always have a built in temperature sensor and the
    capacity can be calculated by measuring the voltage (declines linearly
    with remaining capacity), temperature, and by knowing the discharge
    rate. If you really want to get fancy you can do things like the iPhone
    does with the xxxx controller, including counting coulombs, as the smart
    batteries do.
     
    SMS, Jul 8, 2010
    #32
  13. Joel Connor

    TomTom Guest

    The charger used makes a very big difference.

    My very first NiMH batts and charger (the charger bought for pennies, it
    was thrown in as a freebie on 12 generic NiMHs for $12, battery brand-name
    "TelePower") fast-charges then after full charge switches to a
    trickle-charge to top off the batteries, to circumvent the internal
    resistance that causes their self-discharge. The batteries can be left in
    the charger indefinitely without discharging with near-to-no harm to the
    batteries.

    This nearly free charger charges all my NiMH batteries wonderfully. It also
    has a full discharge mode to freshen old NiCd batteries. This appears to be
    the very first charger that Maha used to sell for about $25-35 that I
    basically got for free. Now there's a Maha rip-off if I ever saw one. Their
    appearance and functions are identical. It also has a 12v adapter cord for
    it. I also use it with my compact folding solar-panels on extended
    photo-treks.

    Compare to all chargers I've gotten bundled with NiMH battery sets since
    then, not ONE of the newer chargers (and there's about 10 from all manner
    of main mfg's., Energizer, Rayovac, Sony, DuraCell, etc. in a junk-box now)
    tops off any batteries properly. Not even their own batteries.

    Surprisingly those 12 generic "TelePower" NiMHs from over 11 years ago
    still keep going and going and going as well. I so wish now I had bought
    about 10 sets of them. Plus each purchase would have given me an extra free
    charger THAT ACTUALLY WORKS.
     
    TomTom, Jul 9, 2010
    #33
  14. What? No information about cameras, camera gear, nor photography from you?

    AGAIN?

    AMAZING!

    NOT


    LOL!


    Ooooops! The MothboyHunter troll trimmed groups, typical signs of 100% pure
    troll. Must restore groups.

    LOL!
     
    Outing Trolls is FUN!, Jul 9, 2010
    #34
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