Tape is superior in many ways!

Discussion in 'Professional Video Production' started by Bible John, Apr 18, 2006.

  1. Bible John

    Bible John Guest

    And what do you do whilest at Disneyland and you fill the hard drive up
    I agree. I think these HD camcorders will be bad and really only for
    certain people. As for me I prefer tapes. This is yet one reason, why I
    refuse to downgrade my nice Sony microcassette tape unit, to one of these
    digitals. With tape I can archive, with digital forget it. With tape the
    recorindings last, with digital they will not.

    I'll bet money that in 10 years I will still be able to play my tapes. I
    have audio tapes from 1987 that still play like a charm, and microtapes
    recorded in 1994 that also play like a charm. With digital everything is
    changing so often.

    Some people claim that tape deteriates overtime. Perhaps this is a myth,
    because not a single one of my many, many audio tapes has deteriated over
    time!

    I have about 50 microtapes and about 80-100 audiotapes.

    For example the standard and prime audio format that the Mac used in 1987 is
    no longer supported under OSX, and in order for me to play all my old
    recordings I have to use a old classic app, which is not supported on the
    new Intel macs. So when I move to Intel (perhaps I kight just move to a PC
    when my ibook finally breaks) I will lose all my recordings from the
    1994-1999 era.

    No thank you, I think I'll stick with tape. Law enforcement and many others
    agree, its the best way. Go do some research and see that many still are
    using tapes.

    The audio formats of today will probably have a hard time playing on the
    computers of 10 years.

    No thanks I'll stick with my tapes!

    They are not dead. What is dead, is digital which wont play on anything in
    10 years. Thats whats dead.


    John

    --
    1 Pet 3:15-But sanctify the Lord God[a] in your hearts, and always be ready
    to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in
    you, with meekness and fear
    CERM-Church Education Resource Ministries
    Founder and director
    http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible
     
    Bible John, Apr 18, 2006
    #1
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  2. Bible John

    Doz Guest

    The WAV file format has already been around for over 10 years... that still
    plays fine... so do mp3's they been around for ages and I can't see them
    disappearing over the next 10 years, too many portables use it.
    Audio CD will be around for a long time yet...
     
    Doz, Apr 18, 2006
    #2
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  3. Bible John

    Richard Smol Guest

    Translation: "How dare all those kids make music at least good as mine
    with equipment that is far cheaper and more flexible!" This must be a
    hard time for a lot of old-timers in the music business.

    RS
     
    Richard Smol, Apr 18, 2006
    #3
  4. Clay tablets have the best proven durability.
     
    Chel van Gennip, Apr 18, 2006
    #4
  5. Bible John

    Bill Fright Guest

    Crap I have Slate ver. 2.0.3 I guess I'm screwed.
     
    Bill Fright, Apr 18, 2006
    #5
  6. Bible John

    Steve Guidry Guest

    You guys are missing the point of any serious effort to do archiving.

    The _REAL_ issue is not "how long does the media last ? " Tather, it's
    "How long can I keep an obsolete format player running ?"

    Steve

    P. S. Anyone have an 8-track player I can transfer my old McGinnis Flint
    and Badfinger tapes with ?



     
    Steve Guidry, Apr 18, 2006
    #6
  7. Bible John

    David McCall Guest

    Are you serious? I think I still have one here.
    It hasn't been turned on for a very long time though.

    David
     
    David McCall, Apr 18, 2006
    #7
  8. Bible John

    UCLAN Guest

    I do. Still works, too.
     
    UCLAN, Apr 18, 2006
    #8
  9. "Steve Guidry" wrote :
    Bingo!!!
    Give that man a see-gar!!

    Bill F.
     
    Bill Farnsworth, Apr 18, 2006
    #9
  10. I still claim there are people who keep players running
    for >90% of the tape formats ever made. Many services
    can be found online who dub "obsolete formats".
    Yes. And frequently available on eBay, also.
     
    Richard Crowley, Apr 19, 2006
    #10
  11. I don't know but it seems to me that 0's and 1's are gonna stand the test of
    time better than oxide. They can be copied without degradation and oxide
    cannot.
     
    Charles Tomaras, Apr 19, 2006
    #11
  12. Bible John

    mc Guest

    Exactly.

    (1) You can copy a digital medium losslessly.

    (2) You can detect when a digital medium is starting to go out of spec,
    before it deteriorates far enough for any of the bits to be unrecoverable.

    In 10 years I predict a thriving industry in special adjustable CD-ROM
    drives (probably self-adjusting) for reading degraded CDs. As long as a 1
    and a 0 are distinguishable from each other, it really doesn't matter
    whether they meet original specifications; you can build or adjust a drive
    to read them perfectly in their degraded condition.
     
    mc, Apr 19, 2006
    #12
  13. Bible John

    David McCall Guest

    I believe oxide, or something like it is used to record data just as it is
    when recording analog. The oxide will get old and brittle, and flake off
    on digital media just as it will with analog media.

    One big difference, is that most analog media will still play even if
    the media is in poor shape. It will just get noisy. With digital media
    there is more tolerance to noise. That is to say your information stays
    in tact even if the media has started to fail, UP TO A POINT. Some
    things like DV video and CD audio have error correction which will
    attempt to reconstruct an approximation of your data, If it can't find
    enough information you get massive dropout. In some cases
    (computers for instance) you get total failure once the data is corrupted.

    David
     
    David McCall, Apr 19, 2006
    #13
  14. Wait until the ol' rubber pinch rollers dry out and give up the ghost!
    I don't care if the deck was running when it was put on the back
    shelf, TIME will deteriorate or dry out some very key components.
    Yeah, there are some people out there who can keep things running.
    (And some of them ain't getting any younger.) But its a friggin' pain
    in the ass when you have to start searching for those guys when you
    gotta have that tape transferred RIGHT NOW.
    The cost of shipping the dead deck out, the labor, the PARTS and then,
    shipping back makes digital archiving very appealing.
    But what the hell do I know? Right?

    Bill F.
     
    Bill Farnsworth, Apr 19, 2006
    #14
  15. Well, one can make copies of digital media before the degradation occurs but
    every copy of analog tape is degraded. Heck, if you had the patience you
    could print out the digital information to paper and that would probably be
    readable by something far into the future. I wonder how my 8.5 x 11" pieces
    of paper it would take to print a CD?
     
    Charles Tomaras, Apr 19, 2006
    #15
  16. Bible John

    Scott Dorsey Guest

    But what are you going to store those 0s and 1s on, if not oxide?
    --scott
     
    Scott Dorsey, Apr 19, 2006
    #16
  17. You appear to be confusing the recording encoding method
    with the recording medium.

    There are both analog and digital methods of recording.
    There are both magnetic and optical (and mechanical) media.

    It would appear that digital is a more reliable method of
    encoding data than analog. For the obvous reasons that it
    is easier to decode semi-degraded information because
    you know what to expect, etc.

    I have first-hand experience to show that field-writable
    optical media are not necessarily reliable. And certainly
    not as reliable as mag tape (whether analog or digital).

    (And don't forget that the hard drive your computer is
    using right now is magnetic.)
     
    Richard Crowley, Apr 19, 2006
    #17
  18. Bible John

    GregS Guest

    I have tried a bunch of old DD floppies and many of them no longer
    are any good. Reformatting only shows up with many errors.
    Many of these are old programs I no longer use but have kept
    the disks.

    greg
     
    GregS, Apr 19, 2006
    #18
  19. You are missing solid state media (flash). Optical analog media are not so
    common anymore. When analog magnetic media became available develepment of
    analog optical media (although interesting, see the Fantasound system:
    http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/sound/Fantasound1.htm ) stopped
    Analog magnetic media have a good degradation characteristic, digital
    media have a terrible degradation characteristic but also has good
    solutions for error correction. Depending on error correction method used
    and the real degradation analog or digital may perform better. As the
    error correction mechanism used for digital data is sufficient for real
    life errors, digital data normally outperforms analog data.
    It is complete nonsense to say "field-writable optical media are certainly
    not as reliable as mag tape". It is clear that solid state media are by
    far the most reliable field writable media. It is hard to find other media
    with an operating temperature range -25C to +85C, an MTBF > 1.000.000H,
    extrem resistance to mechanical shocks etc. For archiving digital
    solutions with integrety checks, redundancy etc. are the most reliable
    solutions.
     
    Chel van Gennip, Apr 19, 2006
    #19
  20. Bible John

    TheFug. Guest

    You also have to decode digital formats.... when the're out of
    fashion, you can't decode...
    -- The Fug
     
    TheFug., Apr 19, 2006
    #20
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