Teacher Recommendations

Discussion in '35mm Cameras' started by Richard, Oct 11, 2007.

  1. Richard

    Richard Guest

    My 15 year old is taking a film course in HS. Her teacher had her order
    about 30 rolls of an Eastern European BW 35mm film 400 ASA.

    The teacher instructed the kids to store the film in the freezer. I think a
    cool dark dry place is better since the kids don't take the time to bring
    the film to room temperature before use.

    The teacher instructed the kids to use a skylight or UV filter for outdoor
    use. I think a K2 yellow filter is the way to go.

    Am I out of touch or is it the teacher?

    Richard
     
    Richard, Oct 11, 2007
    #1
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  2. Richard

    Draco Guest

    Richard,
    Storing some of the film in the refridgerator would be a better
    idea. Then it would only take a short while for the film to come back
    to ambiant temp. The rest can be stored, for faster use, in a cool,
    dry place.
    If this is her first class a skylight or skylight filter would
    be just protection of the front element. A K2 would be for after she
    has done some developing and printing. So she can see the difference.

    I hope she is captured by the magic of B&W and starts a life long
    enjoyment of the art.

    Draco


    Enjoy today.

    Tomorrow is promised to no one.
     
    Draco, Oct 11, 2007
    #2
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  3. Richard

    Peter Irwin Guest

    Fortepan 400 is really grainy stuff. One should always do
    what the teacher requests, but for personal use, Fuji Neopan
    400 is not that much more money and is very similar to Tri-X.
    If price weren't important to me I'd use Ilford HP5 or
    Kodak Tri-x.
    I'd agree with you. If you are going to be using the film
    in the next year, a cool dry place is best.
    I do have a bunch of Ilford Pan-F in the freezer which I
    bought when it looked like Ilford was in trouble.
    It is past its expiry date now, but seems as good as new.
    I'd go for no filter at all for normal use, and use the
    #8 (K2) filter or something stronger when I think
    a filter would help. Many modern lenses have some
    UV filtering built into the lens. (Leitz lenses have
    had UV filtering since 1965 and Pentax lenses have
    had UV filtering since they introduced SMC coating
    around 1970 or 71.)
    Go easy on the teacher. You may be right about everything
    and the teacher wrong, but the teacher is still the
    teacher. Your daughter will have plenty of time to
    learn better later, but she should follow the teacher
    when she is in the class.

    I think it is great that there are still teachers doing
    film and darkroom instruction. These are little things.
    They aren't really important, and she will have plenty
    of time to learn better later.

    Peter.
     
    Peter Irwin, Oct 11, 2007
    #3
  4. Richard

    hickster11 Guest

    contrast, so I most always use a red. But if the teacher says UV, then I
    would use a UV. I've found the Efke from Croatia really nice high silver
    content stuff while I had no luck at all with Forte. Terrible. But I still
    use HP- 5. Bob Hickey
     
    hickster11, Oct 11, 2007
    #4
  5. Richard

    Ken Hart Guest

    Keeping the film frozen will essentially keep it from aging. But letting it
    get up to room temp before opening it is critical. I'd split the difference
    and put it in the refrigerator.

    The skylight or UV filter is mainly to protect the lens without having much
    effect on the image. The K2 yellow will make skies and clouds look nice (the
    red filter more so). I think the better idea would be for her to do a series
    of pictures with different filters: A puffy cloud sky with yellow, red,
    green, and blue; A rosebush with red rose and yellow rose, and the same
    filters; and maybe a closeup portrait with the same filters. (Possibly even
    a portrait with serious acne and the same filters, see which filter clears
    up the blemishes best!)

    I don't think either you or the teacher are out of touch-- just different
    opinions!
     
    Ken Hart, Oct 11, 2007
    #5
  6. I would have done the same when Arista was Ilford. I only have limited
    experience with Efke 100 in 127 and it wasn't pleasant.

    For teaching quantity of film is more important than quality. And
    more will be learned in figuring out how to pull decent results from
    indecent film

    The problem is that 1, 2, 3, ?? shots are going to be real keepers except
    for the choice of film.

    So maybe I would have instructed the class to get 30 rolls of Tmax 100 -
    as Techpan is no more.
    For the past many (some number greater than two) years I have been trying to
    get "condensation damage": Every roll/cassette I take from the freezer gets
    unwrapped, breathed on, put it in the camera and promptly used or had a
    test shot taken. Sheet film I don't breath on, but otherwise
    freezer -> holder -> camera. And it gets very humid in Cleveland.

    Results: zip, zilch, nada, and nothing.

    Emailed Kodak asking for an example of condensation damage ... no reply.
    Asked Usenet, ditto.

    My conclusion: there is no "condensation damage" ...

    It's worse than "wait two hours after lunch before you go swimming";
    I could connive a situation where the swimming advice fits.

    Short of liquid Nitrogen I can't make anything happen by using fresh
    frozen film.
    Only with puffy clouds, and a K2 doesn't do much in my opinion - can't tell
    with from without. IMO, an Orange filter, at minimum, is needed for clouds
    and does as well as a #25 red if both are being used w/o a polarizer.

    I don't think a skylight filter will make any difference at all in
    B&W shot at altitudes less than 10,000 feet.
    The teacher is handing out the grades. You can let it go, the teacher
    won't.

    The teacher's sins are pretty minor as far as sins committed by
    teachers go.

    OTOH, in my book there is nothing wrong with not telling Teach all
    the details of how the homework was really done as long as one did
    it oneself.

    Overdid it once ...

    Had a University assignment of making a Daguerreotype-like photograph
    using 35mm. I contacted a 4x5 negative. The Prof. suspected foul play.
    I swore on my mother's grave that it _wasn't_ a MF shot. The Prof. was
    satisfied. I discoursed on H&W developer and HCC film. Very impressed
    the Prof. was. WTF: Daguerreotypes are 1:1 - no enlargement - where do
    D'types fit with 35mm? Nothing else looked faintly Daguerrish. Maybe
    I should have contacted 35mm. I dropped the course.
     
    Nicholas O. Lindan, Oct 11, 2007
    #6
  7. Richard

    Doug Jewell Guest

    I wonder why an Eastern European film? Surely Kodak, Ilford or Fuji would be
    more consistent, so it would be easier to exclude film problems. I've never
    used eastern european films, but if their quality is anything similar to
    anything else made in eastern europe i'd avoid like the plague.
    If it's going to be used before the expiry, then the fridge or even a cool
    room will be fine. I keep all my film in the fridge, because a cool room in
    my house will still be mid 30's celsius in the middle of summer.
    Not sure why she'd mention a skylight - they are a slight warming filter,
    only applicable for colour film. I think she's advising it's use purely as a
    lens protector.
    I would hope that at some point in the course the teacher will cover the use
    of colour filters for contrast control. I generally use orange or yellow for
    outdoor use, occasionally putting on a red filter. For really punchy
    sky/cloud contrast a Polariser+Red will give you almost jet black skies &
    bright white clouds.
    I also use Green and Yellow/Green for portraits.
     
    Doug Jewell, Oct 11, 2007
    #7
  8. I agree with this.....Some of the best teachers I have had were
    idiots.....But they got their classes to learn on their own just to show the
    teacher "what for" if nothing else. I remember one teacher who was a
    drunk....She missed every Monday morning, and during the rest of the week
    she just stared at the rear wall of the classroom and never said
    anything.....One third of the class left the first couple of days, and the
    rest of us organized ourselves into study groups and learned all the
    material on our own. It was great not having to put up with that other 1/3
    who wasn't interested in learning anything anyway. And, it proved that old
    adage: You can't learn anything from other people. Everything you really
    learn in life, you learn on your own.
     
    William Graham, Oct 11, 2007
    #8
  9. Richard

    Alan Browne Guest

    Don't worry about it if she can understand that she should warm up the
    film for a couple hours before hand. If she knows she's shooting the
    next day, then take the film out the night before.

    Did I mention common sense?
    Filter for effect. Skylight is somewhat useless for B&W,

    UV will improve the contrast somewhat, esp for wide open landscapes.

    Yellow for blue sky/clouds contrast

    Orange for contrasts in the fall*

    Green for outdoor portraits*

    * Never tried orange and green filters myself.

    Cheers,
    Alan.
     
    Alan Browne, Oct 12, 2007
    #9
  10. Richard

    Richard Guest

    Thanks for the feedback.

    The film the teacher had us order is EDU Ultra ISO 400 35X24 Arista. It was
    $1.89 a roll. I can't find any technical information on this film. I picked
    up a used Nikormat and a 50mm 1.4 and a 105mm lens, both from Nikon. I
    forgot how great a camera this is.

    Richard
     
    Richard, Oct 12, 2007
    #10
  11. Richard

    Robert Guest

    check out freestyle website.

    http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_prod.php?cat_id=&pid=1000000834

    link to the dev info in pdf is.

    http://www.freestylephoto.biz/pdf/AristaEDU_Ultra_400.pdf

    the pdf list the film is made in the Czech Republic.

    Robert
     
    Robert, Oct 12, 2007
    #11
  12. Richard

    Annika1980 Guest

    Is she an Ancient History major?
     
    Annika1980, Oct 12, 2007
    #12
  13. Richard

    Andrew Price Guest

    [---]
    Sounds like it's repackaged Foma.
     
    Andrew Price, Oct 12, 2007
    #13
  14. Richard

    Richard Guest

    I wish, more like "friends" and "pop music" major.

    Richard
     
    Richard, Oct 14, 2007
    #14
  15. Richard

    Colin_D Guest

    Number one rule: don't countermand the teacher's requests. Even if the
    teacher is wrong, telling your daughter different will only confuse, put
    her at loggerheads with the teacher, and probably destroy her interest
    in photography. There's plenty of time to add your bit later.

    Colin D.
     
    Colin_D, Oct 16, 2007
    #15
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