Tetenal Ultrafin Plus is there an ryo equivalent?

Discussion in 'Darkroom Developing and Printing' started by Lew, Jul 20, 2008.

  1. Lew

    Lew Guest

    Is there a published formula for an equivalent to Tetenal Ultrafin Plus?
    TIA.
     
    Lew, Jul 20, 2008
    #1
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  2. No, Tetenal don`t publish their formulas
     
    Keith Tapscott., Jul 20, 2008
    #2
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  3. The formula is proprietary but check books like Steve
    Anchell's _Darkroom Cookbook_ because there are sometimes
    pretty close guesses in them. I can't download the MSDS from
    the Tetenal site for some reason, perhaps you can. It will
    not give the formula but will at least give some clue as to
    the type of developer.
    In fact, while there are many developing agents and lots
    of proprietary formulas most developers fall into a few
    classes and within those classes there is not much
    difference. Ultrafin is a liquid concentrate so some of the
    ingredients will be chosen for their capability of being
    dissolved in high concentrations and there will be some to
    keep everything in solution. These are not needed when
    mixing something in lower concentration.
    If you want to mix your own just to do it the formula
    for Kodak Xtol is available because its in the patent. This
    is a very good developer for many films.
    What exactly is your object in making your own?
     
    Richard Knoppow, Jul 22, 2008
    #3
  4. Lew

    Lew Guest

    I always mix my own developers. On the Rolli site there's mention of the
    combo of one of their films at half its usual iso developed in ultrafin
    plus. Thought I'd try it out.
     
    Lew, Jul 22, 2008
    #4
  5. Go ahead (seriously). I used to mix up a lot of different developers to try
    them out, too. But now the only one I mix is my own version of D-72 (for
    paper) because I do not like the color I used to get with Dektol or straight
    D-72. The only difference is my use of benzotriazole instead of potassium
    bromide as restrainer.

    I am reminded of something I believe Kenneth Mees once said about developers
    (probably film developers. I cannot quote exactly, but it went to the effect
    that it was amazing how many ways there were by which identical results
    could be obtained.
     
    Jean-David Beyer, Jul 22, 2008
    #5
  6. The blurb for it on the Tetenal site suggests it does
    not lose speed. There are several extra-fine-grain
    developers which do lose about a stop of speed. Microdol-X
    and Ilford Perceptol are examples. These two are probably
    identical. They deliver very fine grain but have no acutance
    effect when used full strength. You might be interested in
    trying one. I have come to use one or the other routinely
    for 100T-Max. In full strength Perceptol it has nearly as
    fine grain as the late, lamented Kodak Technical Pan but
    about four times the speed and no problems with contrast
    control. In larger formats there is not very much difference
    but the combination makes 35 mm negatives which begin to
    have the smoothness of larger formats. I have not tried it
    with other slow T-grain films like Ilford Delta or Fuji
    Acros but it should give similar results with them.
    The formula for Microdol-X is proprietary but the fine
    grain agent in both it and Perceptol is common salt, sodium
    chloride. I've seen a couple of variations on what is
    represented as the formula. Its similar to D-23 but with the
    addition of about 25 grams of sodium chloride per liter.
    Note that the salt should be pure, most table salt has
    sodium iodide in it as a nutricional supplement and most
    have some sort of anti-caking agent. Supposedly kosher salt
    is pure sodium chloride. Microdol-X, and probably Perceptol,
    have some sort of silver sequestering agent in them to
    prevent dichroic fog, a deposition of very finely devided
    silver which is a characteristic of very fine grain
    developers. I have no idea of what is actually used although
    there are some interesting patents issued Kodak about this.
    Plain Ultrafin, without the plus, appears from the MSDS
    to be very similar to the old "fine grain"
    metol-hydroquinone formulas of the 1930s and 1940s except
    that it uses potassium salts rather than sodium. This may be
    due to the generally higher amount of these salts which can
    be dissolved in concentrated developers. Potassium salts may
    have slightly different photographic activity than sodium
    salts but the difference is not very large.
    Frankly, I prefer to use products I know something
    about even if I don't mix them myself.
    I think the quote Jean-David Beyer was thinking of was
    Mees's remark during a lecture that the very large number of
    developing agents just shows how many ways there are of
    accomplishing exactly the same thing. Mees was the founder
    and director of the Kodak Research Laboratories from its
    inception in 1912 until his retirement in 1961.
    I found a web site on German developers, its in German
    which I don't speak but does not appear to have very much
    secret stuff on it.
     
    Richard Knoppow, Jul 22, 2008
    #6
  7. Lew

    Lloyd Erlick Guest

    July 22, 2008, from Lloyd Erlick,

    Potassium salts do show different
    photographic activity from sodium
    counterparts, but for film development I
    doubt it would be visible or significant in
    practical darkroom work.

    I have compared simple black and white
    *paper* developers made with potassium vs
    sodium salts (e.g. the old Ansco 120 formula
    - the D23 of paper ...). On warm tone paper
    the results from a potassium developer are
    slightly but quite visibly warmer. The effect
    is not really visible until the paper is
    selenium toned.

    regards,
    --le
    ________________________________
    Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
    website: www.heylloyd.com
    telephone: 416-686-0326
    email:
    ________________________________
    --

    On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 08:14:35 -0700, "Richard
    ....
     
    Lloyd Erlick, Jul 22, 2008
    #7
  8. For photography Kosher salt is traif: the anti-caking agent
    is P. Ferricyanide. I have no idea if there is enough to
    cause any effect, but tiny amounts of P. Ferricyanide are
    used for latent image bleaching. Apparently it isn't
    the salt that is Kosher but that the salt is used for curing
    Kosher meat.

    Morton "Pickling and Canning Salt" is pure salt. Comes
    in a green and white box.
     
    Nicholas O. Lindan, Jul 23, 2008
    #8
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