The death knell for reflex mirrors has been sounded

Discussion in 'Digital SLR' started by RichA, Aug 5, 2008.

  1. RichA

    RichA Guest

    GOOD! Figures it would be Olympus, they seem to innovate a lot faster
    than some "other" companies I could name.

    Olympus / Panasonic announce Micro Four Thirds
    Click for: Olympus / Panasonic announce Micro Four ThirdsOlympus and
    Panasonic have announced a new, mirrorless format / lens mount based
    on (and compatible with) Four Thirds. The Micro Four Thirds system
    uses the same sensor size (18 x 13.5 mm) but allows slimmer cameras by
    removing the mirror box and optical viewfinder. The new format has
    three key technical differences: (1) roughly half the flange back
    distance (distance from mount to the sensor), (2) a smaller diameter
    lens mount (6 mm smaller) and (3) two additional contact points for
    lens-to-body communication (now 11 points). Removing the mirror
    mechanism allows this shorter flange back distance, meaning lenses for
    the new mount can be considerably smaller than current Four Thirds
    designs. The format will require framing to be carried out using Live
    View on either the LCD monitor or an EVF. Existing Four Thirds lenses
    can be used on Micro Four Thirds cameras using an adapter. Neither
    company is as yet making product announcements (we expect some more
    news in this respect closer to Photokina).
    RichA, Aug 5, 2008
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  2. A subset of a subset, making existing lenses obsolete without a bulky
    adaptor, perhaps? Oh, and what happened to telecentricty?

    In practice, it will require a /very/ good EVF to persuade people to use
    whatever new cameras are produced.

    David J Taylor, Aug 5, 2008
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  3. RichA

    BlackShadow Guest

    Somebody is putting a lens mounting system on a point and shoot and you get
    all excited. Gee, wait until you discover girls.

    BlackShadow, Aug 5, 2008
  4. RichA

    D-Mac Guest

    D-Mac, Aug 5, 2008
  5. RichA

    Chris H Guest

    Girls are OK but you can't beat the real thing :)
    Chris H, Aug 5, 2008
  6. Sure you can. But it'll make you go blind.
    Blinky the Shark, Aug 5, 2008
  7. RichA

    ASAAR Guest

    Blinky? Hmm . . .

    ASAAR, Aug 5, 2008
  8. Shhh. I was hoping nobody would make the connection. :)
    Blinky the Shark, Aug 5, 2008
  9. Interesting...but I am not sure this is necessarily a great idea. One of
    the reasons I upgraded from my Lumix FZ50 to a dSLR was the fact that an
    optical system gives faster feedback. There is a very small, but also very
    real lag time with a LCD viewfinder. Also, I find it somewhat harder to
    manually focus.
    Jennifer Usher, Aug 5, 2008
  10. RichA

    RichA Guest

    The qualifier here is to develop a contrast focus system with speed
    and accuracy, unlike current offerings from Sigma, etc.
    RichA, Aug 5, 2008
  11. Yabbut, sharks have no hands, hence no palms, hence, well you get the
    John McWilliams, Aug 5, 2008
  12. I was willing to allow the discussion to address the equivalent parts... :)
    Blinky the Shark, Aug 5, 2008
  13. RichA

    Scott W Guest

    This reminds me of when Chenry said the Iraq insurgents were in the
    last throes.

    Rich, did you ever write for the White House?

    Scott W, Aug 6, 2008
  14. RichA

    Alan Browne Guest

    With nearly 4x less sensing area than a FF DSLR the 4/3 system is a dead
    end system for most photogs due to noise limiting the pixel sizes and
    hence number of pixels. This latest development is an intriguing twist
    but seems to amount to a high end P&S.

    I hope there will be an adaptor for current 4/3 lenses to adapt to the
    narrower throat area...

    -- r.p.e.35mm user resource:
    -- r.p.d.slr-systems:
    -- [SI] gallery & rulz:
    -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
    -- usenet posts from and are filtered out.
    Alan Browne, Aug 6, 2008
  15. There will be. Which proves that the "telecentric" bit was a lie from the
    David J. Littleboy, Aug 6, 2008
  16. RichA

    Paul Furman Guest

    OK, I did actually laugh out loud at this exchange.

    Paul Furman, Aug 6, 2008
  17. RichA

    Paul Furman Guest

    I think it's a neat idea though certainly not an SLR killer it could
    possibly grab a significant number of SLR buyers. The Leica M8 AP-S
    sized rangefinder & other 4/3 fixed lens models seem to be complete

    The old Leica lenses aren't suited for digital for technical reasons and
    lose their wide angle ability so you get 2/3 of the wide angle-ness out
    of them and (moerate) wide angle was their forte. Nowhere near being in
    the ballpark as far as price/performance. If that's really the rig you
    need, just use film & pay someone to scan it for you :)

    I forget the other attempt(s?) but the idea was basically like this but
    with a so-so fixed lens, no zoom as I recall... which would be fun for
    $300 but not what they charged.

    This micro 4/3 idea needs a better name... Ideally the old 4/3 will die
    & it can simply be called 4/3. I haven't handled an Oly but seeing them
    on the street they look about the same size as an entry level DSLR. And
    probably a little more expensive and more noisy... where's the
    attraction to that???

    Sensor technology is getting good enough that 4/3 is really not bad for
    noise & resolution and will get better. It'll always be ahead of the
    smaller P&S sensors just like DX will always be ahead of P&S & FX ahead
    of DX. Hell, cell phone cameras are good enough for many needs. I use mine.

    As a DSLR lens geek I might even get one of these things with a
    semi-wide pancake lens like the (forget it's name) fixed lens model...
    plus it'd be simple to get an adapter for my Nikkors and maybe some
    interesting cine lenses & mount it to telescopes, etc. Sounds fun and
    I'd have something pocketable: put the old 45mm pancake lens on & I've
    got a perfect street shooting rig with a fast 90mm tele (60mm in DX
    parlance). Put a compact 20mm/2.8 Nikkor on & I've got a bit wider than
    normal walk-around lens. Once it's popular it'd only cost $300 and be
    significantly smaller than the smallest DSLR.

    For P&S people it'll be a significant step up in noise/resolution which
    actually costs less and is actually smaller than the AP-S competition.
    Most don't care about an optical viewfinder. It could make money by
    drawing that group into buying lenses by giving them an attractive

    Or not. We'll see.

    Paul Furman

    all google groups messages filtered due to spam
    Paul Furman, Aug 6, 2008
  18. RichA

    RichA Guest

    66 deaths a month last year, averaging 5-6 now. You were saying?
    RichA, Aug 6, 2008
  19. RichA

    Paul Furman Guest

    Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see how that implies anything
    about telecentric design. The old 4/3 lenses will be in exactly the same
    relationship as before, they'll just look bulky with an extension tube
    adapter. As I understand the old film Oly lenses are pretty badly
    crippled on 4/3. They do work, you just have to stop them down for
    acceptable results. Leica's M8 has proven the old non-telecentric
    rangefinder lenses (short flange distance) are compromised on digital.
    For old SLR lenses it's not a big problem but apparently there is room
    for improvement.

    Paul Furman

    all google groups messages filtered due to spam
    Paul Furman, Aug 6, 2008
  20. RichA

    Paul Furman Guest

    ....on AP-S

    Paul Furman

    all google groups messages filtered due to spam
    Paul Furman, Aug 6, 2008
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