The first class of my photography course!

Discussion in '35mm Cameras' started by Andrew McCall, Jan 30, 2004.

  1. Andrew McCall

    Nick C Guest

    My guess would be none. That is none were put off who were really interested
    in photography. It's as though darkroom work, or the understanding of
    darkroom work, is an embellical cord to the camera, which itself is an
    embellical cord to the photographer.

    Nick C, Jan 31, 2004
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  2. Andrew McCall

    mike Guest

    Nineteen years later and I still remember my first B+W print "appearing" in
    the developing tray.

    It's something every Photographer HAS to experience.

    Mike k
    mike, Jan 31, 2004
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  3. I merely made a request. You choose not to honor it, and that is your
    right; you will not avoid the consequences of your actions, however. Your
    choice is deliberately boorish in this culture, and you are now identified
    The point of my response was that the darkroom is an excellent place to
    start when learning photography. The photographic process is accessible
    there as it is not when it takes place in the camera.

    I would suggest that your method lays out far too much too quickly, however.
    Enough in one session to take in the equipment and the process itself. The
    next session can build on that understanding with demonstrations of
    exposure response with test strips and actual negatives.

    In fact, I infer that you have never taught, or you would well understand
    that the "overload phenomenon" is very much to be avoided, as it creates a
    negative response and makes the task of getting the student to actually
    learn the material that much harder. Best to leave them slightly hungry
    for more, than overly sated and at risk of constipation.

    Bill Tallman
    William D. Tallman, Jan 31, 2004
  4. Andrew McCall

    Deathwalker Guest

    Whilst giving our first darkroom demo the teacher said "now its nothing
    really to do with the chemicals its magic!"

    I was the only one who chuckled everyone else just looked at him blankly.

    "i always do that to see how many people are actually paying attention to
    anything i say"
    Deathwalker, Jan 31, 2004
  5. Andrew McCall

    Annika1980 Guest

    From: "mike"
    Yeah, kinda like the first time you ever played PONG on your Atari.

    Or the first time you ever wrote a BASIC program for the computer.

    If you're teaching someone to use a computer today, do you first teach them
    Annika1980, Jan 31, 2004
  6. Andrew McCall

    MikeWhy Guest

    Of course not. I expect them to already be proficient at booting up and
    starting Photoshop. I would dive right in with the C compiler and ksh.
    MikeWhy, Jan 31, 2004
  7. Andrew McCall

    Peter Irwin Guest

    No, you teach truth tables and either do some machine language
    or a language which is fairly close to the machine level.

    Getting beginners to make photograms on photographic paper,
    and make a pinhole camera perhaps with paper negatives
    helps them understand the basics of photography.
    If you have never done those things, you have really
    missed something.

    Peter Irwin, Feb 1, 2004
  8. Honoring your request against top-posting (which still seems like the
    right way to me, but I digress). Anyway...

    I am a student lab assistant at my school. In those duties, I assist
    the teacher by way of assisting other students, mostly with printing
    color and black-and-white and also by assisting with some studio
    set-ups. Even the 101 level students seem to "get it" without having
    to run too far afield from the basic photographic process. Why dumb
    down something which is not rocket science to begin with? To my way
    of thinking, learning, and yes even teaching, it only serves to
    complicate that which is reasonably simple.

    street shooter, Feb 1, 2004
  9. Andrew McCall

    Lionel Guest

    Kibo informs me that (Annika1980) stated that:
    Lighting, exposure & tonality are things that, IMO, you learn far better
    in the darkroom.
    "Put off"? - I loved doing darkroom work! I still remember the darkroom
    component of my studies far better than anything else we did.
    Lionel, Feb 1, 2004
  10. Andrew McCall

    Lionel Guest

    Kibo informs me that (Annika1980) stated that:
    No, but if you're teaching them to *understand* computers, rather than
    merely how to *use* them, good teachers start with boolean algebra &
    logic circuits, then work up to machine code & eventually high level
    languages. Many very average programmers think that level of knowledge
    is unnecessary, but it makes the difference between being a technician &
    being a master.
    Lionel, Feb 1, 2004
  11. Andrew McCall

    Lionel Guest


    For example; pinhole photography teaches you to *really* understand the
    tradeoffs between wide & narrow apertures.
    Lionel, Feb 1, 2004
  12. Andrew McCall

    Hugo Drax Guest

    Sex only goes so far, time to look for a new girlfriend. That is probably
    the most valuable lesson of the whole situation :)
    Hugo Drax, Feb 1, 2004
  13. Andrew McCall

    Nick C Guest

    There is an old saying that I recall seeing seemingly eons ago, imbedded in
    a plaque on the side of a wall.

    "There will always be a job for the man who knows how, but the man who know
    why will be his boss."

    Anyone can learn how; even monkys have learned how. It's learning the why
    that makes the difference. Kapish?

    Nick C, Feb 1, 2004
  14. Andrew McCall

    Matt Clara Guest

    I think you're mistaken. Around here there are two photo tracks to get on
    at school: the one involves a full degree in art where you take drawing and
    everything else (including art history) before you tackle photography. The
    other is PJ work, where you come from a journalism major.
    Matt Clara, Feb 1, 2004
  15. street shooter wrote:

    Well, you certainly present yourself well in this response, sir! So you
    deserve an explanation:

    When answering an email to a single individual, top posting has arguable
    advantage, as the sendee presumably already has the context of the exchange
    and can simply ignore the rest without scrolling down. This situation is
    not the case wrt 1) email lists and 2) Usenet posts.

    In these latter two cases, there are multiple recipients, none of whom can
    be assumed to be conversant with the exchange. In fact, getting an
    exchange thread out of order is a routine occurance on the Usenet. Which
    means that context and exchange flow are important in each post.
    Otherwise, much is, or can be, lost.

    So the accepted protocol here, as in an email list, is to intersperse your
    response into the post you are answering, where those parts of that post
    for which you have no response are deleted. These deletions, however,
    should be noted: Common usage is to precede a section of quote that has
    been selected with "<snip>" to show the points at which deletion began or

    With this protocol, your response contains the appropriate context, placed
    to present a normal flow of conversation, such as is usual in prose. OTOH,
    if you don't do it this way, the reader is tasked, at the very least, with
    scrolling up and down to read the flow. The result is that your response
    will simply be skipped, which is never good for the ego, dontchaknow....

    I gather that you are not using M$'s "Outhouse Excrescence", as there is no
    User-Agent in your headers, so I assume that you are using a Usenet client
    that is probably configurable. It might be worth your while to change that
    configuration for your convenience. Need help? Tap into the Usenet group
    dedicated to your software, and it shall be!!! Viva la
    Aha. Okay, the presentation rate depends on the teacher who establishes the
    curriculum, and it's pretty much a matter of that teacher's experience.

    BTW, ever heard of Man Ray? If not, look him up!

    In any case, if you continue gathering experience in teaching you will find
    that even the simplest material can be daunting to students for reasons
    that are often not at all obvious. Which is why teachers learn to make
    very sure that the students don't get behind the curve, but rather have the
    opportunity to look at least slightly ahead. It's good for their

    What's going on here is the phenomenon of teacher overtraining. Teach a
    subject long enough and there is absolutely nothing in the material that
    should be the least bit difficult. For the teacher, that is. To the
    student, such a teacher is a potential monster that cannot understand why
    there should be any difficulty at all! In fact, this phenomenon is made
    very clear in the more elementary teacher training curriculum, such that
    one learns that a primary professional teaching skill is to be able to
    accurately monitor the student's response to the material, whatever that
    might be.

    This is most important in classes where there are no completed coursework
    requirements. In those cases, unless the course is a simple survey class,
    the default choice may well be to move very slowly and fill in the gaps as
    best as one is able. This may be what the OP's instructor has decided.
    Does that make sense?

    In the courses that you serve as assistance, are they open courses, or part
    of a curriculum?

    Bill Tallman
    William D. Tallman, Feb 1, 2004
  16. Andrew McCall

    parv Guest

    In that case, why quote at all? Just to increase the pay load so
    that some news reader does not display the default message?

    - parv
    parv, Feb 1, 2004
  17. Andrew McCall

    brougham5 Guest

    It is my experience that those who have used command prompts tend to have a
    better understanding of how to use computers efficiently than those who can
    work only with a window interface.

    So to answer your question, yes, I would. Maybe not at first. But before
    they get too far down the path, I would teach the underlying principals.
    brougham5, Feb 1, 2004
  18. See, I can be reasonable if dragged kicking and screaming ;-)
    Okay, if its easier for others for me to do it this way - for reasons
    other than that they like it one way and I like it another - then, so
    be it.
    I usually do that - even previous to this exchange - when I want/have
    wanted to exchange ideas point by point.
    I post via Google.
    Heard of him, but don't know much about him. I'll look him up.
    Both. Some students major in Photography, while others need a Photo
    101 course as a required elective for the Visual Communications
    program, and about 20% of the students enroll in photography courses
    for personal enrichment.

    street shooter, Feb 1, 2004
  19. Andrew McCall

    Alan Browne Guest

    Wow, were you burned! I got the runway fashion shoot for the first
    evening... the only darkroom was where I finished with the assistant,
    her friend the masseuese and one of the models...
    Alan Browne, Feb 1, 2004
  20. Andrew McCall

    ian green Guest

    well let me add a couple of bytes here
    0. i'm just starting up in photo, no pro, just pure imho
    1. ever saw a person's first run of photoshop? all those "cool" filters &
    stuff?! in just two or three seconds turning any photo into pure psychodelic
    useless mess then close w/out saving.... you need to learn in some steps.
    2. bw is better for composition and lightning.
    3. students who don't give a damn about real working process may just as
    well go try something other (check for those "blank eyes").
    4. yes - it's pure magic. yes - it's technology as well. but if you see
    magic first you're more interested so more educatable.

    ian green / WEiRd

    Whole Extremist iNsult of Reason dEadlock
    ian green, Feb 1, 2004
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