The Photoshop Family

Discussion in 'Digital Cameras' started by Sandman, Feb 12, 2014.

  1. Only figurative, kid.
    Give it up. You're making a complete fool of yourself. The printer is the
    device, and it is a CMYK device.
    They don't get RGB data, the data they get is CMYK.
    You switched sides there, you know... :)
    That isn't true at all. The data the printer actually gets from
    the print driver software is all CMYK oriented. It knows about
    each ink, how big the nozzle squirts are, etc etc.

    This isn't something you can't verify. There are more than one
    Open Source set of drivers available. Take a look!
    Never looked at the code for a print driver eh? Tsch tsch, and
    here you are mouthing off.
    Except they don't get RGB data and they don't have RGB inks.
    Where you made up something that you know nothing about? I did get
    a laugh out of it.

    Look at a print driver. Does it allow adjusting saturation of
    Red, Blue, and Green? Or like mine does it allow adjusting
    saturation for CMYK, and gamma for each too for that matter!
    Where ever you are, it's hilarous.
    The computer software is all RGB and it must talk to RGB devices
    such as the monitor, and yes otherwise it would need CMYK
    functionality! Good boy.

    But when it needs to talk to an CMYK device it uses a device
    driver that has input in RGB and converts everything to CMYK for
    the device. The output data that goes to the printer is CMYK
    because that is what the printer actually does know.
    Never. Can't you read???
    Read it again. It says the same thing I'm saying. "Your
    printer software automatically converts RGB files to your
    printer's 4-color CMYK format."

    The "printer software" is the *computer's* print driver. As it
    says, the printer gets the CMYK format that it needs.

    They are saying that if you have a CMYK formatted file you can't
    feed it directly to the print driver, and instead must convert
    it and then let the print driver convert it to the appropriate
    CMYK format for the printer.

    Your "original print files" are files to be fed to the RGB input
    of the software. That, once again, is the *computer* not the
    printer.

    You need to use your head when reading or you'll get very
    confused here. You've given three different examples (and I've
    snipped two as they are repeats of the first one) and clearly
    you aren't paying enough attention.
    Did you read what it says above???

    "Your printer software automatically converts RGB files to
    your printer¹s 4-color CMYK format."

    The "printer software" is not stated as the printer's software.
    It is the print driver on your computer. It outputs, just like
    that says, converted "RGB files to your printer's 4-color CMYK
    format."
    Yeah, that's true! It happens back there in the computer's
    print driver. Mind you the output from the print driver doesn't
    know anything about pixels. The driver produces a command that
    prints an entire line and it knows about each individual nozzle.
    It knows the color of ink and the size of the dot of ink that is
    squirted.

    At that point it would be *impossible* to convert from RGB to
    CMYK. And that is what the computer sends to the printer.
    Goodness. You do realize that there are various third party
    device drivers for these printers, right? A lot of folks don't
    use Epson's device drivers.
    Oh, really! How about all these folks using Apple software?
    Or CUPS for example.

    And even on a Windows machine, the RIP is part of the print driver!

    (Errr, you did know that, right?)
    Everyone who prints uses a print driver.
    And print drivers happen to be something people who print do
    interact with.
    But they do use one.
    We've already seen that you don't understand how a print system
    works.
    And now you've committed a real sin. You won't admit you were
    wrong, and you've dug a hole so deep you can never get out.

    We'll be laughing at you over this one for ages!
     
    Floyd L. Davidson, Feb 22, 2014
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  2. Sandman

    PeterN Guest

    SLANDER, Or have you forgotten.
     
    PeterN, Feb 22, 2014
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  3. Sandman

    PeterN Guest

    He get out just fine by ignoring your correctors, and then conveniently
    forgetting what he/she wrote.
     
    PeterN, Feb 22, 2014
  4. Sandman

    Tony Cooper Guest

    Despite your usual wriggling and twisting when defending your
    mistakes, what happened is that you wrote a reply that was clearly a
    non sequitur and unresponsive to the post to which you replied.

    You could have phrased your reply clearly to make your point: "out of
    how many millions of adobe users who don't post here?", but you
    didn't.

    It wouldn't have addressed the original goof on your part in which you
    implied that only professionals and a few "advanced amateurs" need the
    full version of Photoshop, but your following claim would have been
    clear.

    You can only become an advanced amateur in using a program if you have
    it to use. Had you written "...and others who would like to become
    advanced in the use of the photoshop tools need the full version", you
    would have been on more solid ground.
     
    Tony Cooper, Feb 22, 2014
  5. Sandman

    Alan Browne Guest

    How does slander apply to your pretty anonymous "handle"?
     
    Alan Browne, Feb 22, 2014
  6. Sandman

    PeterN Guest

    I will leave that issue for if and when I decide to pursue my remedies.
     
    PeterN, Feb 22, 2014
  7. Sandman

    Alan Browne Guest

    Right. Tell me, would you represent yourself? (Hoary quote refers).
     
    Alan Browne, Feb 22, 2014
  8. Sandman

    PeterN Guest

    I enjoy a poker game with someone who takes me for a fool.
     
    PeterN, Feb 22, 2014
  9. Sandman

    Alan Browne Guest

    Bring cash. We likes cash.
     
    Alan Browne, Feb 22, 2014
  10. Sandman

    Guest Guest

    not in the vast majority of apps, you can't.
    the app sends rgb to the printer.

    the printer driver (which is part of the printer, not part of the app)
    does the conversion to whatever inkset the printer has. that might be
    just cmyk and it might not. in your case it's 10 inks.

    as far as the app is concerned, it's talking to an rgb device. the app
    has no clue what the inks are, nor does it need to.

    some apps may support other printing options, such as photoshop cs/cc
    and cmyk. they will use a *different* printer driver because the
    standard driver expects rgb.
     
    Guest, Feb 22, 2014
  11. Sandman

    Guest Guest

    i could have, but i overestimated your intelligence.
    that's not a goof at all.

    that's exactly how adobe is marketing the two versions.

    if it's good enough for adobe, it's good enough for me.

    and it's not a goof, no matter what you may think.
    that has nothing to do with what i said.
     
    Guest, Feb 22, 2014
  12. Sandman

    Guest Guest

    it is not possible to slander someone over usenet.

    slander is spoken. usenet is written.

    that alone means you won't get very far.

    what you want is libel, not slander. even a first year law student who
    flunked out would know that.

    what are your damages? none.

    truth is an affirmative defense, and since what i said is based on what
    you wrote, it is all the truth.

    unless you lied.
     
    Guest, Feb 22, 2014
  13. Sandman

    Guest Guest

    it's not me who is making a fool of oneself.

    the physical printer is cmyk. nobody said otherwise.

    however, you need more than just a physical printer to print.

    a printer doesn't do much without a driver and a driver doesn't do much
    without a printer. you can't use one without the other.

    both become a single entity that presents an rgb device to the apps.

    the apps send rgb to the printer.

    that's all they *can* do since most apps don't have cmyk functionality.

    the apps may not even know the specifics about printer the user has
    chosen and in most cases, they don't need to. photoshop will send the
    same data to a 4 ink cmyk printer or a 7 ink ccmmykk printer or to a 1
    ink b/w printer.

    the same rgb data is sent to a fuji frontier (an rgb printer) or an
    epson printer (a cmyk printer).

    both are seen as rgb devices to the app.

    the printer drivers are part of the printer package. they come with the
    printer. they do not come with the apps.

    sometimes they may be preinstalled on the computer, but that's just a
    convenience.

    sometimes they aren't on the computer at all, such as with airprint.

    the line of delineation is apps <-> printer & printer driver.

    you are putting that line at the printer itself, and then combining the
    app and printer driver together as an entity. that is incorrect. that
    is where your mistake is.

    most apps can *only* send rgb. that means the printer *must* be an rgb
    device or the app cannot print.

    some apps can send cmyk, but they will use a rip and a *different*
    printer driver. that is not the normal situation for typical users. it
    might be for pro users, but that's a small minority.

    that's why i said rgb device and not rgb printer. the choice of words
    was intentional and deliberate and it's 100% accurate.

    epson agrees with me. the printer expects rgb. if you send cmyk, it
    will be converted to rgb so that the printer driver can process it as
    rgb as it normally would.

    since the printer expects rgb data, it is therefore an rgb *device*.

    the physical printer hardware uses cmyk inks (or some variant thereof)
    but the app doesn't see that, nor does it need to.

    the printer may support direct cmyk data (but is not required) and it
    does so by using a *different* printing pipeline. there also needs to
    be cmyk support in the app. it's also not the normal use case.
     
    Guest, Feb 22, 2014
  14. Sandman

    Guest Guest

    if they're sinking $100k into a print project, they are obviously a pro
    and won't be using photoshop elements.

    commercial printing = pro use.

    that's not the target market of photoshop elements, which is why cs/cc
    has the ability to use cmyk and elements does not.
     
    Guest, Feb 22, 2014
  15. Sandman

    PeterN Guest

    Touche
     
    PeterN, Feb 22, 2014
  16. Sandman

    PeterN Guest

    Spoken out of ignorance
    more ignorance
    Keep plien up my case.
     
    PeterN, Feb 22, 2014
  17. Sandman

    Tony Cooper Guest

    One thing I'll give you credit for...you never admit error and will go
    to any lengths to deny that you did. Ridiculous lengths, even.

    Your ability to bring a set of double standards into a single post is
    impressive. You can dismiss one thing saying it's how Adobe is
    marketing the program - which has nothing whatsoever to do with
    anything that's been in this thread, and then dismiss what *has* been
    in the thread - and said by you - as having nothing to do with what
    you said. I can't imagine how, but you must think you're fooling
    people.

    How does one become an "advanced amateur" without access to the
    program?
     
    Tony Cooper, Feb 22, 2014
  18. What printer is that?

    You still continue to post false information that is easily verified
    as such.

    The app sends RGB to the computer's print driver software. That
    results in CMYK data, which is sent to the physical printer.
    It's CMYK. And you'll be hard pressed to come up with any inkjet printer that
    isn't!
    But the printer device is CMYK.
     
    Floyd L. Davidson, Feb 22, 2014
  19. Well nobody else is making such of fool of you!
    What an hilarious set of weasel words. You claimed the data sent
    to the print device was RGB, now you at least admit the printer
    is CMYK.
    The device is the physical printer. The computer has a device driver
    so that it can talk to the printer. Printers use CMYK.
    Apps send RGB to the computer's print driver.
    No it won't. It won't sent *any* data directly to the printer. It
    sends data to the computer's print driver software.

    The printer gets CMYK data.
    That is not true.

    Danged, you are either an absolute weasel when it comes to what
    you've said, or you are denser that a stump.

    So, my question is are you a white ermine this time of year, or
    do they keep you where you're always BS brown.
     
    Floyd L. Davidson, Feb 22, 2014
  20. Sandman

    PeterN Guest

    Floyd, the guy forgets what he/she said in message ID:
    <200220141901111831%>

    "...heck, even pros don't often need cmyk, especially since epson
    printers are rgb devices."

    the logical conclusion is that he/she is either lying, or using the
    term:"nobody" in the context that means: nobody who can be taken seriously.

    Hmm! Indeed that may be his defense.
     
    PeterN, Feb 22, 2014
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