The "tiny" store

Discussion in 'Digital Cameras' started by Tony Cooper, Apr 24, 2014.

  1. Tony Cooper

    Tony Cooper Guest

    I went down to Colonial Photo and Hobby today to buy a back-up CF card
    and took a few snaps with my compact camera.

    I'll let anyone who views these images decide if it's a "tiny" store.

    I believe Jonas said something about a limited camera inventory, but I
    haven't looked up that post to verify this. You can decide from the
    photo if the inventory is limited.

    There are actually three counters; two sections of joined 10' units
    and one cash register counter. The total counter space is prox 60'
    running feet not including the cash register unit.

    I erred when I said Colonial never discounts accessories. As you can
    see in one photo, there is a single bag with a 25% discount sale
    price. There are five facings of 12' gondola shelves of bags.

    There are 13 double-sided gondola shelves in all not including the two
    in the framing/matt section. The store map shows 6. The map is also
    off in that the area to the right of the film processing area is now
    taken up by studio lighting products and no RC hobby items. (Image
    #19)

    I asked Frank if he remembers a tall Swede asking about a Sony A5, and
    he doesn't. The Sony rep hasn't been by the store for quite some
    time, and it's the manufacture's reps who train the store's staff on
    new products and show the additions to the line. The last time a Sony
    rep visited was October 12, 2013, and that was for half a day.
    https://www.facebook.com/ColonialPh...13476511333/10151704377031334/?type=3&theater

    Three reps from Olympus are due in next week to talk about the Olympus
    line and give some presentations for the public.

    My photos are not very good. The store layout doesn't allow one to
    draw back and photograph parts of the store.

    Photos at:
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ie0pb5c8zg8hfrr/4RrTw56-4I
     
    Tony Cooper, Apr 24, 2014
    #1
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  2. Tony Cooper

    Sandman Guest

    Wow, this REALLY burned you. Why do you have so much personal pride
    invested into this store? I just don't get it.
    Why not just look up what I actually said instead of telling people to
    determine if it's something you're not even sure I said?

    I said they had a very small number of cameras on the shelves.
    What's a Sony A5?
    That's a real shame. They should make sure they don't rely on people that
    come so seldom to keep up to date. One of the things I like about the
    smaller camera stores here in town is that they always make sure they're
    knowledgable about their merchandise, something few big store have.
    You weren't kidding, those were some really crappy photos, why are they so
    over-exposed? Is it the camera?
     
    Sandman, Apr 24, 2014
    #2
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  3. Tony Cooper

    Tony Cooper Guest

    You make a lot of claims that are highly dubious, but this is one that
    I could personally check out. So I did.
    What do you suppose are in all those boxes on the shelves? Pom poms?
     
    Tony Cooper, Apr 25, 2014
    #3
  4. Tony Cooper

    Tony Cooper Guest

    Awww...I'm wounded.
     
    Tony Cooper, Apr 25, 2014
    #4
  5. Tony Cooper

    Sandman Guest

    No you didn't. My claim was that it was small, which you didn't check out,
    since "small" is relative, Tony. You may think it's enormous, but I don't.
    And that really annoys you, that I wasn't greatly impressed by the size of
    Colonial. And I can't understand why you have so much pride invested in
    a.... store.
    A small number of cameras.
     
    Sandman, Apr 25, 2014
    #5
  6. Tony Cooper

    Sandman Guest

    Sorry, it wasn't my intention, you said they were crappy yourself, and I
    was merely agreeing and asking if its the camera or if you purposely choose
    to overexpose every image?
     
    Sandman, Apr 25, 2014
    #6
  7. Tony Cooper

    Whisky-dave Guest

    From A UK person the store seems resonably large. I woul;dn;t call, it small or tiny.

    Where I brought my canon A1 you couldn't get more than 5 people in at a time.
    It had ONE of those counters with the class sliding doors.

    They do the job intended of them.
     
    Whisky-dave, Apr 25, 2014
    #7
  8. Tony Cooper

    Whisky-dave Guest

    You said timy to me when I said I didn;t think i9t wass small why do you say it is small or tiny ?
    Large is also relative and you claimed it is tiny compared to what if everything is relative what is it tiny compared to I mentioned teh moon to helpyou out last time but you must of missed that hint on relativity.
    Also why I brought the Tardis into this.



    So it's no enormous compared to an atom of say hydrogen ?

    I was the one whop said I'm comparing this to the store where I borough my camera and I do not think of that camera store as small.

    No you said it wsas small and didn;t have a lot of cameras on offer but nevber said what you are comparing it with.

    for me it wasn;t about pride bu the way you decribed a store any store.
    You also claimed you were corect because I've never beejn in colional storebut I don't need to do I when pictures are posted the fact hwere is you'veneverc beenn in my local camera store and you've never seena picture of it so how can you evaluate it size, by looking at yuor arse it seems.

    Define a small number ?

    Anyway maybe a month late but the Oxford English Dictionary have added a few words to itself, they were probbaly thinking of you at the time ;-)

    http://jezebel.com/cunty-cuntish-cunted-and-cunting-added-to-oxford-engl-1543768870
     
    Whisky-dave, Apr 25, 2014
    #8
  9. Tony Cooper

    Sandman Guest

    I said small in my initial post, but yes, I have also called it tiny.
    I know it is relative, that's what I just said.
    Is that what Tony is comparing it to?
    Good for you. I wasn't referring to what you think it is, hoever.
    No one asked.
    I haven't said it was about pride for you. You are replying to a post that
    was a response to Tony. Of course, Tony will claim that any post here is
    directed at the "group" so he probably think I was in reference to your
    pride as well.
    No, I didn't claim I was "correct", I just said it was tiny, and "tiny" is
    relative. Perhaps it's not tiny to you.
    I have never, at any point, "evaluated" the size of the camera store you've
    been to. My reply was: "I'm not sure what the size of a store where you
    bought a camera have to do with anything."
    Smaller than you'd find in a larger camera store.
     
    Sandman, Apr 25, 2014
    #9
  10. Tony Cooper

    Tony Cooper Guest

    How does one "check out" a claim that is based on a relative term like
    "small"?

    One way is to visit the place, take photographs that show contents and
    markers of known size that can be used for comparison and present
    those photographs so anyone interested can come to their own
    conclusion.

    Oh, wait. That's been done.
     
    Tony Cooper, Apr 25, 2014
    #10
  11. Tony Cooper

    Sandman Guest

    Just for kicks, I went back to Tony's pictures and counted. His photos
    aren't very good so it's hard to see, so there is a margin of error here.
    But here goes:

    First, there's the Olympus section, which are two cabinets, I count 18
    cameras in those cabinets. Though some seem to be in boxes, so let's round
    it up to 20 just for the sake of it.

    Then we have the Fujifilm cabinet, where I can only count two or maybe
    three cameras, and some LED flashes. Lets' round it up to five

    Then he took another picture of the Olympus section, so I won't count that
    one again.

    Then we have the Nikon section, where there are maybe 15-16 cameras, but
    let's round that up to about 20 as well for good measure.

    Beyond that, we have an unlabeled section with 29 cameras (of which a
    surprising low amount is P&S cameras). Let's round it up to an even 30.

    Then he took some more picture of shelves he already took pictures of.

    Then we have a few cameras in the counter as well, but not many. All in
    all, I count 8, but let's rount it up to 10, or maybe 15 if Tony missed
    some counter space in his evidence-photo-trip :)

    So, what's the score?

    Olympus: 20
    Fujifilm: 5
    Nikon: 20
    Unlabeled: 30
    Counter: 15
    Sum: 70

    So, 70 cameras, hopefully of different makes and models (it's hard to see).
    I don't know what kind of camera stores you're used to, but that's not a
    huge amount of cameras to me. Just the P&S section of your normal camera
    store in here most likely have some 50 models of cameras. Cyberphoto here
    in Sweden most likely have over 100 P&S cameras on display, and three times
    as many SLR cameras.

    Curiously, I didn't see a Canon section in Tony's photos, but as far as I
    can make out, there were some Canon cameras on the shelves in the unlabeled
    section.

    Just for reference, here's a shot which is a bit older, from a local camera
    store:

    http://sandman.net/files/cyberphoto.jpg

    In those two cabinets, there's 56 cameras, and I think there are about 8 or
    10 such cabinets in the store, along with other display forms for cameras
    and such. So you may understand why I think Colonial was a bit small and
    had few cameras?

    Here's another view, where you can see more cabinets in the background.

    http://sandman.net/files/cyberphoto2.jpg

    Hope that helps.
     
    Sandman, Apr 25, 2014
    #11
  12. Tony Cooper

    Sandman Guest

    One doesn't, that's the point :)
    Yeah, but "small" is relative, so what are you comparing it with? What is the purpose?
     
    Sandman, Apr 25, 2014
    #12
  13. Tony Cooper

    sid Guest

    I've only one question, what does the bloke at the counter in no 7 have
    attached to his face?
     
    sid, Apr 25, 2014
    #13
  14. Tony Cooper

    Savageduck Guest

    In some circles those are called *beards*.
    Many men and some women are known to wear them if they are so inclined.

    Darn! looking in a mirror I see I have one on my face, better trimmed
    and quite a bit grayer, but there it is.
     
    Savageduck, Apr 25, 2014
    #14
  15. Tony Cooper

    Whisky-dave Guest

    20 is already far more than my camera shop used to stock.
    I assume you are refering to new cameras rather than second hand

    Seperate counters wow, amazing.

    another section....... this is beginijing to sound more and more like the Tardis .

    and it doesn't stop here does it.

    For me that's a fair number of cameras for 1 camera shop to have ready to purchase.

    well here's the one where I brought my 1st telephoto lens.
    Pretty similar in size to where I brought my canon A1 but it had two windows as it was on a corner. It also used to have a studio for hire upstairs.

    http://www.allinlondon.co.uk/directory/1297/2434.php

    I'd still call this a small camera shop at peak times it hads two sales assistants, but I haven't been there in this millinium.


    Here's the side shot.
    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sqtP5jlLSOfGeUowrFTJW_g!2e0


    I see this as a small shop both in size and stock levels.

    other way of telling are from entrances and exits small shops are allowed to have just one main entrance-exit larger shops have more and in the UK are reqiured by law due to the fire requlations to alloow more people in/out through the main doors.


    It's not huge to me either but far more than I'm used to seeing in just oneshop, well new and DSLRs.

    I don;t count P&S outlets as camera stores, but are stores that sell cameras, such as PC world, argos and amazon perhaps.
    Yes amazon are a huge 'store' aren't they, but I don;t consider them camerastores, which is what we were talking about.


    SO is this store smaller than colonial or stuart cameras, you've not shown a picture of the store just what they advertise so we don't know if yuor size refernece is due to the number of cameras on shop in teh store their turnover, their showroom floor or anything else.
    chedck out college cameras on-line adn how large or small do you think theyare in size revinue or the number of cameras on offer or sold per month.
    Do you really thinkl of the products shown that this will be a large storeeither physically or in turnover ?

    https://www.collegecameras.co.uk/
    How many DLSRs do you think they sell 100s a week ?

    Lok a 1 ltr zoom bottle they must be selling loads of those to be able to advistise them on their front page.
    Afterall who doesn;t use those4 sorts of bottles for thier chemicals .

    Try that on college cameras and count how many cameras come up.
    Yes this is the shop were I brouight mine, they didn;t keep SLRS in stock other than secondhand, I read the reviews and ask them to get one for me, I said I was pretty sure of buying it, they ordered it specailly.
    In fact it didn;t work teh diaphram never stopped down and I took it back within the weeks, I'm glad I didn't go mail order or risk a grey import at the time.
    and why I considered my camera store as being much smaller as it only had one such cabinet.
    that shot makes the premisies look larger than colonail but does that make the colonial store small or tiny I don't think so.
     
    Whisky-dave, Apr 25, 2014
    #15
  16. Tony Cooper

    Sandman Guest

    That's very fascinating, but we're talking about Colonial here, not your camera shop.
    As far as I know, Colonial doesn't deal with second hand cameras, but I don't know for sure.
    Huh? I'm talking about the glass cabinet's behind the counter, keep up.
    If you are to read what I write again, you will note that I said he photographed one section two times.
    Cool! For me, it's not. And remember, I'm the one that called it small, not you.
    Colonial might have had a back exit, but mind you - the actual STORE is fairly large, but the camera section only makes out 16% of the entire store.
    Good for you!
    Neither do I, which is why I didn't say anything like that.
    Perhaps you should read the entire post until you respond, ey? Or at least go back and delete something that is out of place when you've read the entire post.
    Why? I don't care about "college cameras" in any capacity.
    Again, "your" camera store is not the topic here.
    Colonial's camera section certainly is tiny in comparison. Again, we have as many cameras in TWO cabinet's in Cyberphoto as all of Colonial, and there are many cabinets (more than seen in these images)
     
    Sandman, Apr 25, 2014
    #16
  17. Tony Cooper

    android Guest

    I found this kinda stuff.:) http://tinyurl.com/n2fsv6p
    Good to know were to find as I'm contemplating a major scanning effort
    the next year or two... Not sure if the device that I found is adequate
    though.
    I did triy to use the color adjusted computer screen as a lightbox, and
    put a loupe over it and a slide... That didn't work! ;-p
    Yeahyeah whatever!!!
     
    android, Apr 25, 2014
    #17
  18. Tony Cooper

    Tony Cooper Guest

    Really? This is what you are going with?

    What you see in the photos are the cameras that are on the shelf for
    display. There is no particular reason to have more than a few
    cameras of any model on display. Sometimes they do, but more often
    not.

    All that's required is that there are enough display units of each
    model for the salesmen to be able to handily access one to show a
    customer.

    In fact, it's bad business to have too many units of the same model
    camera out on display. A camera that has been out on display is
    technically a "display model" and not a pristine new camera. It can't
    be re-packed in the original box in the same condition as it arrived
    from the manufacturer.

    What you are not counting are all of the boxes on the shelves below
    the glassed-in display area. There are many photos in that series that
    show these boxes. The boxes contain bodies or lenses. That's where
    Colonial's inventory is located.

    You say you don't see a Canon cameras. I don't know how you missed
    this, but look at
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/s6f8mh199hm9i5c/2014-04-24-05.jpg
    and notice the boxes behind Frank.

    That is not an Olympus display behind Frank. There is an Olympus
    banner above the section, but the display is not of Olympus cameras.
    The banners don't designate an area for that brand. Note the Nikon
    banner, the Fujifilm banner, and the other manufacturer logo things in
    other areas. Note the brand names on the cards in the section.
    What you are attempting to prove here is that a store's inventory is
    based on the number of cameras out on display. Fallacious reasoning
    in the first place, but it raises the point that - if your contention
    is true - that all buyers of cameras at Cyberphoto are buying display
    models that have been available for handling and use by customers. All
    cameras at Cyberphoto are "out of the box" cameras.

    Personally, I don't want that. I want to buy a new camera that is "in
    the box" and untouched by other customers.

    This is, partly, why I maintain that a well-written premise does not
    need substantiation. Your premise - that the number of cameras out on
    display indicates the store's inventory - is so poorly constructed
    that it begs for substantiation.

    By the way, that's a nice looking store layout in the Cyberphoto
    pictures. However, it suggests to me that Cyberphoto is kind of a
    Best Buy type store where the customer roams around and looks at
    cameras on the shelf. Unlike Best Buy, they are in (probably) locked
    cases and the customer is not able to pick them up and handle them,
    but it's showcase type of display. Evidently, there's no salesman
    assistance unless the customer calls one over.

    Colonial's approach is different. Colonial requires the customer to
    ask to see and handle a camera and the salesman brings it out. Behind
    the counter vs elsewhere in the store in cases.

    I'm sure not everyone prefers this approach, but it seems to work for
    Colonial.
     
    Tony Cooper, Apr 25, 2014
    #18
  19. Tony Cooper

    Tony Cooper Guest

    It seems to be hair. Self-grown.
     
    Tony Cooper, Apr 25, 2014
    #19
  20. Tony Cooper

    Tony Cooper Guest

    Sorry, but that's an idiom in US English and it's not fair on my part
    to use terms that you might not know. I apologize.

    It means "Is this what you are going to use?" It's a rather snarky
    way of saying "You have not chosen the right defense for your claim."
    You are somewhat expected to use a little common sense. In what kind
    of store would you expect all of the store's inventory to be visible?
    Even a grocery store that has several boxes of breakfast cereal out on
    the shelves is expected to have more in the storeroom.

    Colonial happens to stock some of their inventory in boxes on the
    shelves under the display area, but common sense should tell you that
    they might have even more in a storeroom.

    What you have counted are the display items. To project that to a
    conclusion about inventory is greatly lacking in common sense.
    You may have noticed, when in the store, that there were several
    salesmen behind the counter. If two customers were in the store,
    being handled by two different salesmen, it's quite likely that both
    customers might want to see the same model camera. (Not unit, model.)
    With only one unit on display, only one customer at a time can be
    shown that model.
    If you figured this out, why couldn't you figure it out above?
    Good point when it comes to the point and shoots. However, is this
    what your argument has come down to? Arguing about the number of
    colored point and shoots required as display merchandise for a store
    like Colonial?

    How do you say "It also comes in red" in Swedish?
    That gives an idea of the accuracy of your assumptions.
    What is your substantiation that not every model is on display and
    that the selection is limited at Colonial?
    Oh? So there are more units at Cbyperphoto than are on display? There
    are units in unopened boxes in Cyberphoto's inventory that can be
    sold? You accept that a Cyberphoto but not at Colonial?

    If so, the comparison is not about inventory, but about the number of
    display units. Do you want to go back and revise your earlier
    statements about the small number of cameras at Colonial to one that
    says there are a smaller number of cameras out of the box and out on
    display in Colonial than expected?
    Storeroom? Cyberphoto has a storeroom and you think that's a method
    of inventory storage that has not been adopted in a US store?
     
    Tony Cooper, Apr 25, 2014
    #20
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