To pull or not to pull

Discussion in 'Photography' started by Mark, Jul 22, 2003.

  1. You can, up to two stops.

     
    Gregory W. Blank, Jul 24, 2003
    #21
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  2. Blame it on the facist ISP I have the site upon. Less room some had to go now
    I must rebuild the site else where when time permits.
     
    Gregory W. Blank, Jul 24, 2003
    #22
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  3. Mark

    Mark Guest

    Thanks for everyones responses. I will have the film processed normally.

    To end the speculation, I wasn't trying to bracket etc., I simply
    forgot to change the settings when I put in a new roll of film.


    Mark
     
    Mark, Jul 24, 2003
    #23
  4. Mark

    Dave Scott Guest

    Why don't you get a fucking life.
    Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:6
    bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the
    Sadducees? Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the
    leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the
    Sadducees."--Matthew 16:11-12
    kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither
    suffer ye them that are entering to go in."--Matthew 23:13
    houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the
    greater damnation."--Matthew 23:14
    land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more
    the child of hell than yourselves."--Matthew 23:15
    and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law,
    judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave
    the other undone."--Matthew 23:23
    outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion
    and excess."--Matthew 23:25
    whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within
    full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."--Matthew 23:27
    tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the
    righteous,"--Matthew 23:29
    Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod."--Mark 8:15
    to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,"--Mark
    12:38
     
    Dave Scott, Jul 25, 2003
    #24
  5. Mark

    Comrade Guest

    be gone, arrogant ruffian aristocratic pig

    --
    Comrade
    see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws
    the aristocracy was the problem in 1776, the aristocracy is the problem today
    http://www.aclu.org/dissentreport
    Arisocrats CRUCIFIED Jesus
    we must close the door by which aristocracy arises

    Statements of supposed science, without statistics, are just as much religion,
    and ONLY statements of faith as any religion, or statement of faith,
    except they profess the supposed scientist is God, even more
    dangerous than religion or God. There is no science, without a statement of
    statistics, AND any statement without statistics, is a conjecture of faith
    by the professor of such statement, and the "believer". An ethical
    house cleaning of science and government is in order.

    "Does God want goodness? or the choice of goodness?
    Is the man who chooses bad, somehow better,
    than the man who has the good forced upon him?"
    a quote from the movie, A Clockwork Orange, Kubrick

    Enlightenment is man's release from his self-incurred tutelage.
    Tutelage is man's inability to make use of his understanding
    without direction from another. Self-incurred is this tutelage when
    its cause lies not in lack of reason but in lack of resolution
    and courage to use it without direction from another. Sapere aude!
    "Have courage to use your own reason!" - that is the motto
    of enlightenment.
    Kant -- What Is Enlightenment? 1784

    "It all sums up into one single purpose,
    the abolition of dog-eat-dog under which we live...
    and I traveled the United Front road to get it."
    -- Roger Baldwin, Co-Founder ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union)

    "Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in
    Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in"
    MOODY BLUES

    "Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:6
    (religious and political leaders that are hypocrites)

    (leaven is yeast, AIR IN BREAD, bullshit, fluff, marketing, snake oil - HYPOCRISY)

    "How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:11-12

    "But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in."--Matthew 23:13

    "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."--Matthew 23:14

    "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."--Matthew 23:15

    "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."--Matthew 23:23

    "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess."--Matthew 23:25

    "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."--Matthew 23:27

    "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,"--Matthew 23:29

    "And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod."--Mark 8:15

    "And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,"--Mark 12:38


    see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws
     
    Comrade, Jul 25, 2003
    #25
  6. Mark

    Dave Scott Guest

    Bite me you communist pig!
    Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:6
    bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the
    Sadducees? Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the
    leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the
    Sadducees."--Matthew 16:11-12
    kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither
    suffer ye them that are entering to go in."--Matthew 23:13
    houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the
    greater damnation."--Matthew 23:14
    land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more
    the child of hell than yourselves."--Matthew 23:15
    and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law,
    judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave
    the other undone."--Matthew 23:23
    outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion
    and excess."--Matthew 23:25
    whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within
    full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."--Matthew 23:27
    tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the
    righteous,"--Matthew 23:29
    Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod."--Mark 8:15
    to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,"--Mark
    12:38
     
    Dave Scott, Jul 25, 2003
    #26
  7. Mark

    Comrade Guest

    this what I have to say about the cowboy and his flag waving hooligan
    sportsfans http://www.mysolution.ws/operation.htm

    --
    Comrade
    see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws
    the aristocracy was the problem in 1776, the aristocracy is the problem today
    http://www.aclu.org/dissentreport
    Aristocrats CRUCIFIED Jesus
    we must close the door by which aristocracy arises

    Statements of supposed science, without statistics, are just as much religion,
    and ONLY statements of faith as any religion, or statement of faith,
    except they profess the supposed scientist is God, even more
    dangerous than religion or God. There is no science, without a statement of
    statistics, AND any statement without statistics, is a conjecture of faith
    by the professor of such statement, and the "believer". An ethical
    house cleaning of science and government is in order.

    "Does God want goodness? or the choice of goodness?
    Is the man who chooses bad, somehow better,
    than the man who has the good forced upon him?"
    a quote from the movie, A Clockwork Orange, Kubrick

    Enlightenment is man's release from his self-incurred tutelage.
    Tutelage is man's inability to make use of his understanding
    without direction from another. Self-incurred is this tutelage when
    its cause lies not in lack of reason but in lack of resolution
    and courage to use it without direction from another. Sapere aude!
    "Have courage to use your own reason!" - that is the motto
    of enlightenment.
    Kant -- What Is Enlightenment? 1784

    "It all sums up into one single purpose,
    the abolition of dog-eat-dog under which we live...
    and I traveled the United Front road to get it."
    -- Roger Baldwin, Co-Founder ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union)

    "Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in
    Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in"
    MOODY BLUES

    "Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:6
    (religious and political leaders that are hypocrites)

    (leaven is yeast, AIR IN BREAD, bullshit, fluff, marketing, snake oil - HYPOCRISY)

    "How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:11-12

    "But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in."--Matthew 23:13

    "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."--Matthew 23:14

    "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."--Matthew 23:15

    "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."--Matthew 23:23

    "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess."--Matthew 23:25

    "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."--Matthew 23:27

    "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,"--Matthew 23:29

    "And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod."--Mark 8:15

    "And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,"--Mark 12:38


    see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws
     
    Comrade, Jul 25, 2003
    #27
  8. Mark

    Kevin Guest

    I don't wish to jump into the name-calling aspects of this thread,
    but I am curious about how this push/pull stuff works. Is it true,
    as you seem to imply, that if I accidentally shoot a roll of 200
    film at 100, I can simply fix it in the processing stage, and the
    prints will turn out just fine?

    If this were true, then why would anyone ever use 800 speed film?
    Why not just use 100 speed film (for the superior grain) and
    *shoot* it as it if were 800 (for the speed), thus getting the
    high-speed shots with superior grain?

    Surely *something* is lost in the push/pull process?

    Kevin.
     
    Kevin, Jul 29, 2003
    #28
  9. Pushing increases contrast, so you increase the film speed
    but printing is then more of a problem at very dramatic pushes.

    Small pushes 1/4,1/2 3/4 and full stops especially for slide films boost the highlights somewhat
    without increasing the contrast dramatically. Beyond a point if film is not exposed properly
    there will never be detail in the shadow areas. 800 speed films are really 400 asa ones in disguise
    400 are rather like 200 asa a manufacturers game of how high can we rate the film before
    people complain,...but not always an absolute its just about what you like
    to see and what the Manufactures standards define where the film speed is measured from.
     
    Gregory W. Blank, Jul 29, 2003
    #29
  10. That isn't correct. Manufacturers all test via standardized methods
    under the ISO methodology. That was the point of the ISO standard, to
    make sure that consumers could rely on film speeds being standard.


    Karen Nakamura
     
    Karen Nakamura, Aug 9, 2003
    #30
  11. That isn't correct. Manufacturers all test via standardized methods
    But with B&W, it depends on your personal technique for development
    as related to agitation, etc..
     
    Randall Ainsworth, Aug 9, 2003
    #31
  12. No, it will not.
    Yes, shadow detail. Sahdow detail is the measure of speed.
     
    Michael Scarpitti, Aug 9, 2003
    #32
  13. What the hell are you talking about?

    Actually he is going to benifit if he pulls the film
    some what shadow detail is unaffected by a top end
    decrease in development time, in other words
    it will lower the contrast index somewhat. The only question should be: how much
    development decrease is appropriate.

    Try to follow along.
     
    Gregory W. Blank, Aug 9, 2003
    #33
  14. He asked if 'pushing' works. I said 'No'

    See his question:
    I said, no, there will be a loss of shadow detail.

    Try to follow us, OK?
     
    Michael Scarpitti, Aug 10, 2003
    #34
  15. No thanks.

     
    Gregory W. Blank, Aug 10, 2003
    #35

  16. If you shoot your 800 film at 50, you can't 'fix it in the
    processing'.

    If you shoot your 100 film at 800, you can't 'fix it in the
    processing'.

    OK?

    Film speed is determined by the nature of the emulsion at
    manufacturing and is 'more or less' inflexible.
     
    Michael Scarpitti, Aug 10, 2003
    #36
  17. No one pushes or pulls that much, and you know it.
     
    Gregory W. Blank, Aug 11, 2003
    #37
  18. Here was his question, in case you can't scroll:

    "If this were true, then why would anyone ever use 800 speed film?
    That was his question!
     
    Michael Scarpitti, Aug 11, 2003
    #38
  19. I read from News Watcher once I read an article its gone unless
    I save or mark it unread. I think in this particular case I would
    say pushing 100 speed film that far is not a good choice at all.

    Btw upon the suggestion of someone else I pushed 400
    C41 & 800 one and two stops both to 1600
    As I have said in the past pushing film in general sucks.
    C41 is even worse, these pushes were done by my local reputable
    Pro Lab, Luckly I clipped half the roll and shot with flash
    on the normal part.

    By my own experience, film contraction works 100% better.....
    pushing is not something I have a particular need to do.
     
    Gregory W. Blank, Aug 11, 2003
    #39
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