Tsunami MPEG Media Editor with HDV

Discussion in 'Amateur Video Production' started by Smarty, Dec 3, 2005.

  1. Smarty

    Smarty Guest

    As a devoted fan of the Tsunami TMPGE and TMPGE DVD Author, I downloaded the
    new Trial Version of the Tsunami MPEG Editor, which recently added HDV
    editing among other new features.

    Much to my utter disappointment and surprise, this program now truly stinks.

    The time required to open an HDV file is painfully slow. A 5 minute 22
    second clip (1GB file size) took about 14 minutes to open. That's not the
    bad news..........

    The bad news is that editing is essentially impossible, since the scrubbing
    time line never seems to catch up with the scrolling frames. Whenever you
    move back and forth in the video, the program pauses for many seconds and
    then puts up an error message "Playback cannot catch up with Timeline". As
    an editing tool, it fails miserably compared to Vegas, Video Studio 9, FCP,
    or even iMovie on a MacMini...........

    This post is merely a warning to others that this new Tsunami program has
    some serious issues. I have contacted them via their support site, and asked
    if there is anything I can do to fix this. Their email support says to
    expect a response in a week.......

    I am running the trial on a 3.4 GHz Dell Hyperthreaded P4 desktop with 2.5
    GB of RAM.

    Smarty
     
    Smarty, Dec 3, 2005
    #1
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  2. Smarty

    Mark Burns Guest

    Thanks for the update Smarty. Save many of us a lot of trouble.

    I love TDA, but suspect that this Tsunami is not the same company
    anymore.

    Alas....

    Good to hear from you.

    Cheers...

    Mark
     
    Mark Burns, Dec 3, 2005
    #2
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  3. Smarty

    Smarty Guest

    Hi Mark,

    Sorry I have not been more active on this or other newsgroups recently, but
    will hopefully become more involved again now that the snow has fallen here
    in the northeast U.S. My comment regarding Tsunami is indeed a reflection of
    their loss of focus both in marketing and in technical superiority. Seldom
    do I prefer older versions to newer versions, but such is indeed the case
    with their DVD Author. And this MPEG Media Editor can properly described as
    "lame" with due apologies to those who use the 'other' Lame encoder to rip
    mp3s.........

    HDV presents one of the few recent opportunities to really challenge the
    software designers to find ingenious ways to handle the long GOPs and very
    high data rates found in high-def content. The fact that some people have
    found very efficient ways to do it (like Ligos in their latest encoder for
    Ulead's Video Studio 9) says that it is technically feasible. It is really
    surprising to see how vastly different the products behave in this area,
    particularly from experienced software developers from MainConcept, Vegas,
    Pegasys, Pinnacle, etc. Until these faster algorithms and code proliferate,
    the home (and commercial) editing of HDV becomes slow and tedious, not
    unlike the MJPEG tools of the 1990's. Eventually the dual core / dual
    processor hardware or custom ASICS will solve this problem, but it is
    woefully inadequate for most users. Anybody who does HDV editing and
    rendering using recent vintage tools still has a major delay issue.

    Sorry for a long-winded reply. Good to be back and thanks for your kind
    words.

    Smarty
     
    Smarty, Dec 4, 2005
    #3
  4. Smarty

    Ken Maltby Guest

    Hi Smarty, Mark;

    I have never felt the urge to try the "MPEG Media Editor", while
    I do have all the other TMPGEnc products (Except the new Pro TDA)
    I have used VideoReDo on some downloaded HDV files, with no real
    problems. I had to convert some .mp4 with VLC first though.

    I was never impressed with Pegasys as a company, it was just that
    the original programmer did a great job on both the Encoders and
    TDA. It could be that he now has a smaller role or is paying less
    attention.

    Luck;
    Ken
     
    Ken Maltby, Dec 4, 2005
    #4
  5. Smarty

    Smarty Guest

    Hi Ken,

    Good to hear from you. The MPEG Media Editor was initially enticing since it
    is the only product they offered which now handles HDV. My personal
    attraction to their products was also based on the initial simplicity, ease
    of use, and bug free performance of DVD Author and the original encoder.
    Alas, the newer products are cluttered with activation, sluggishness, and
    price tags which are no longer as attractive.

    I'm glad the older stuff continues to work so well. I still get plenty of
    use out of the earlier programs.

    Smarty
     
    Smarty, Dec 4, 2005
    #5
  6. Smarty

    Peabody Guest

    Smarty, can you tell me what versions were the high point for
    TMPGEnc and for Author and MPEG Editor? I'm currently using TMPGEnc
    Xpress 3.0.4.24, and Author 1.6.34.89, which I think is the latest
    (but not Pro), and Editor 1.0.1.59, which is pretty old now. Would
    other versions be better, assuming I could find them?

    I have a new computer, and didn't bring TMPGEnc Plus 2.5 over from
    the old one. I think maybe I need to do that.
     
    Peabody, Dec 4, 2005
    #6
  7. Smarty

    Smarty Guest

    The prior version of TMPGE DVD Author V1.6 is apparently still being sold,
    and has essentially the same capabilities as the newer version with the
    further advantage of not requiring Internet activation when the program is
    started. It has fewer templates, which causes some legitimate criticism of
    the rather plain looking menus it creates. Others on this forum have found
    very good creative ways to work around this limitation, however. It also
    lacks the ability to hear the audio track while editing if you are using it
    with Digital Dolby ac3 audio content, whereas the newer "Pro" version
    includes the AC3 plugin. The AC3 plugin can be purchased for $19 optionally
    for use with the older "non-pro" version, but many of us have found it
    unnecessary, since the V1.6 version does properly handle the DVD creation,
    and only lacks the audio "preview" capability while editing.

    I have not owned the prior version of their MPEG editor, and only downloaded
    the trial since it now includes HDV capabilities. Since HDV MPEG is a
    monster to process, with much larger data rate, resolution, and GOP
    structure, it was appealing to see a low cost editor from a reputable
    supplier. Alas, the performance is just terrible with HDV, but the editor is
    fine for conventional MPEG2 and MPEG1 files used in DVDs, VCDs, SVCDs, etc.
    where resolution and bitrates are many times lower. Thus I ***would ***
    recommend their newest version of the editor but ***ONLY*** if you did not
    want to do HDV editing.


    Hope this helps,
    Smarty
     
    Smarty, Dec 4, 2005
    #7
  8. Smarty

    Bob Guest

    That alone is the kiss of death as far as I am concerned. They can
    keep their bullshit program if it's going to do crap like that.

    What if the Internet is down when I want to use it? I have had the
    Internet go down for days at a time - although not in recent times.
    But it can and does go down for several hours at a time. I'll be
    frelled if I am going to sit around and wait to run an application I
    bought just because the developers are anal.


    --

    "One must realize that the world is a network of real and virtual
    combat zones where the stakes are high, struggle is the primary
    mode of being and only total victory is acceptable.
    -- Sun Tzu, "The Art Of War"
     
    Bob, Dec 4, 2005
    #8
  9. Smarty

    Mark Burns Guest

    I suspect that Smarty meant installed, not started. Internet
    activation is when we install the product, internet verification is
    when we run the program. The TmpgEnc Dvd Author AC-3 plug-in from
    Pegasys requries internet verification, on an irregular basis. The new
    programs seem to require internet activation when we install them.

    Many programs today are requiring internet activation, which simply
    means that they have to be still in business when one goes to
    reinstall. None of us like that, and the only way to tell them that is
    to not recommend their products and to not buy them, unless we are all
    able to get used to the idea of leasing software.

    Cheers...
     
    Mark Burns, Dec 4, 2005
    #9
  10. Smarty

    Smarty Guest

    I'm a bit vague on the correct interpretation myself, since I contacted
    Pegasys support to voice my personal complaint about the activation when the
    new TDAuthor Pro program first came out. Their customer service person
    replied by saying that Pegasys was giving serious consideration to changing
    the activation approach, by reducing the frequency with which it required an
    Internet "call home". Apparently the program requires irregular access, no
    less often than every 30 days, and possibly more frequently. I replied to
    the email from Pegasys support stating that I personally would NOT buy the
    program unless the activation were only a single event at program
    installation time. His reply did not indicate the intent of Pegasys to go
    that far as I recall. As I recall, several of us shared opinions at the time
    with the common opinion being that ANY dependency upon the continuing
    survival of Pegasys or other web-based activation contact was totally
    unacceptable.

    Moreover, the new Pro program itself has little or nothing to recommend it
    over its' predecessor, so the incentive to pay more money, get a new
    version, and then suffer this additional issue is not there at all.

    I hope my recollections are accurate. I could go back through some archived
    threads if it would help, but Ken, Mark, and others may have better
    insights.

    Smarty
     
    Smarty, Dec 5, 2005
    #10
  11. Smarty

    John Howells Guest

    FWIW, when I complained they told me:
    However, our license validation for DVD AUTHOR PRO is basically an
    activation - you only need to be connected when you install the program,
    reinstall it, or update it. After the license is retrieved, you should be
    able to disconnect it from the internet and use it with no problem.

    Also, if you check our website at
    http://www.tmpg-inc.com/product/tdap_operation.html, you will see where it
    says that the internet connection is required for activation.
    <<

    but I have not upgraded, for much the reasons that others have noted, as (a)
    I don't like this activation approach in case the company are not around
    when I want to reinstall (b) the new version has little to commend it other
    than a 16:9 mode for menus and (I think) the ability to set off the create /
    erase / burn sequence at the start, rather than having to be there when the
    create phase ends to start the erase / burn phase, and (c) $60 for an
    upgrade with little new is a bit steep.

    If they (a) go back to the "activation" procedure used in the old version,
    and (b) halve the price for an upgrade I might reconsider.

    John Howells
     
    John Howells, Dec 5, 2005
    #11
  12. Smarty

    Bob Guest

    If they don't there's always bit torrents.

    --

    "One must realize that the world is a network of real and virtual
    combat zones where the stakes are high, struggle is the primary
    mode of being and only total victory is acceptable.
    -- Sun Tzu, "The Art Of War"
     
    Bob, Dec 5, 2005
    #12
  13. Smarty

    Kelvin Guest

    I tried the Tsunami TMPGE trial version couple of months ago.
    Installed it and tried it a couple of times and uninstalled right away,
    and then deleted the exe file from my computer. I think I will keep
    the TMPGnc DVD Author and be very happy with it.

    If you are looking for a HD editor, nothing beats VideoReDo. Load in 2
    secs, cut/join in about 7 minutes for 43 mins video.

    They have great support too.
    http://www.videoredo.net/msgBoard/index.php
     
    Kelvin, Dec 11, 2005
    #13
  14. Smarty

    Smarty Guest

    Thanks Kevin,

    I found the rendering of the editing HDV files to be extremely slow. I am no
    longer using it for HDV, but my recollection was that it took several times
    real time. Your example of 7 mins for a 43 min clip did or did not include
    the final output rendering?


    Thanks,

    Smarty
     
    Smarty, Dec 11, 2005
    #14
  15. Smarty

    Kelvin Guest

    Absolutely. Cut/Join to an output file in 7-10 mins. VideoRedo don't
    re-encoding or render the source file.
     
    Kelvin, Dec 11, 2005
    #15
  16. Smarty

    Smarty Guest

    My confusion......... I was using Womble, not VideoReDo, in the time
    trials I referred to. Womble was the slow program, ***NOT*** VideoRedo.

    Thanks Kevin,

    Smarty
     
    Smarty, Dec 12, 2005
    #16
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