Use Kodak Tray Siphon to Wash film?

Discussion in 'Kodak' started by Steven Woody, Jun 15, 2007.

  1. Steven Woody

    Steven Woody Guest

    is it a good idea of using Kodak Automatic Tray Siphon to wash 120
    roll films?

    and, i also heard Jobo and Ap provide a product which looks like a
    pipe connected to their develop tanks used for washing films in tank.
    it's cheaper than the tray siphon, but i think if i buy the tray
    siphon i can also use it to wash prints, so that's might be a better
    decision.

    i like to here your opinions about the subject. thanks!

    -
    woody
     
    Steven Woody, Jun 15, 2007
    #1
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  2. Steven Woody wrote:
    > is it a good idea of using Kodak Automatic Tray Siphon to wash 120
    > roll films?


    I never tried it, but I do not shoot much roll film. I use tray syphon only
    to wash RC color prints of 8x10 size in 11x14 tray.
    >
    > and, i also heard Jobo and Ap provide a product which looks like a
    > pipe connected to their develop tanks used for washing films in tank.
    > it's cheaper than the tray siphon, but i think if i buy the tray
    > siphon i can also use it to wash prints, so that's might be a better
    > decision.


    I use Jobo 2500 size reels in two of their tanks. These reels can do 120 and
    220 size film as well, though I use them mostly for 35 mm rolls and 4x5
    sheets. I have seen their film washer gizmo. But I just stick a flexible
    hose down the center of the reels and let the water run for 10 minutes.
    After 5 minutes, I dump the water and let it refill. Then at 9 minutes, I do
    it again. Then I hypo clear for a minute and then photo-flo for a minute.

    The advantage of the Jobo gizmo that I do not use is that it mixes air
    bubbles with the water. I am not sure what good that does. Some people do
    that with their print washers too. In the winter, it might be an advantage
    if it lets the dissolved air in the water come out of solution instead of
    forming on the surfaces of the prints. In print washers, the water flow is
    much less than when washing film, and this happens, especially if you are
    mixing cold and hot water to get the mixture at the temperature you want.
    But with film, I have never had a problem with this.
    >
    > i like to here your opinions about the subject. thanks!
    >
    > -
    > woody
    >



    --
    .~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
    /V\ PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A Registered Machine 241939.
    /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
    ^^-^^ 13:05:01 up 3 days, 18:05, 3 users, load average: 4.17, 4.26, 4.26
     
    Jean-David Beyer, Jun 15, 2007
    #2
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  3. "Steven Woody" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > is it a good idea of using Kodak Automatic Tray Siphon to
    > wash 120
    > roll films?
    >
    > and, i also heard Jobo and Ap provide a product which
    > looks like a
    > pipe connected to their develop tanks used for washing
    > films in tank.
    > it's cheaper than the tray siphon, but i think if i buy
    > the tray
    > siphon i can also use it to wash prints, so that's might
    > be a better
    > decision.
    >
    > i like to here your opinions about the subject. thanks!
    >
    > -
    > woody
    >

    The tray syphon works fine for sheet film but you must
    make sure the sheets don't stick together in the tray just
    as you would when washing prints.
    For roll film I stick the end of a hose into the center
    of the tank. The JOBO system sounds about like this but I am
    not familiar with it.


    --
    ---
    Richard Knoppow
    Los Angeles, CA, USA
     
    Richard Knoppow, Jun 15, 2007
    #3
  4. Steven Woody

    John Boy Guest

    Steven Woody wrote:
    > is it a good idea of using Kodak Automatic Tray Siphon to wash 120
    > roll films?


    No.

    Use hypo-clear and wash in the tank.
     
    John Boy, Jun 16, 2007
    #4
  5. Steven Woody

    Steven Woody Guest

    On Jun 16, 8:55 am, John Boy <> wrote:
    > Steven Woody wrote:
    > > is it a good idea of using Kodak Automatic Tray Siphon to wash 120
    > > roll films?

    >
    > No.
    >
    > Use hypo-clear and wash in the tank.


    thanks.
     
    Steven Woody, Jun 16, 2007
    #5
  6. Steven Woody wrote:
    > is it a good idea of using Kodak Automatic Tray Siphon to wash 120
    > roll films?
    >
    > and, i also heard Jobo and Ap provide a product which looks like a
    > pipe connected to their develop tanks used for washing films in tank.
    > it's cheaper than the tray siphon, but i think if i buy the tray
    > siphon i can also use it to wash prints, so that's might be a better
    > decision.


    I don't think so. The tray siphon is designed to maintain a water flow
    from the bottom (where the hypo sits) in a flat tray. IMHO a much better
    way would be to leave the film in the tank and have the water flow in from
    the center, pushing the hypo up and out.

    If you wanted to get technical, you could rig up a hose from the faucet
    into the spindle, less technical, use a funnel, really simple aim the
    water into it.

    Geoff.


    --
    Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
    IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
    Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/
     
    Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jun 16, 2007
    #6
  7. Steven Woody

    Peter Guest

    On Jun 16, 10:44 pm, (Geoffrey S. Mendelson) wrote:
    > Steven Woody wrote:
    > > is it a good idea of using Kodak Automatic Tray Siphon to wash 120
    > > roll films?

    >
    > > and, i also heard Jobo and Ap provide a product which looks like a
    > > pipe connected to their develop tanks used for washing films in tank.
    > > it's cheaper than the tray siphon, but i think if i buy the tray
    > > siphon i can also use it to wash prints, so that's might be a better
    > > decision.

    >
    > I don't think so. The tray siphon is designed to maintain a water flow
    > from the bottom (where the hypo sits) in a flat tray. IMHO a much better
    > way would be to leave the film in the tank and have the water flow in from
    > the center, pushing the hypo up and out.
    >
    > If you wanted to get technical, you could rig up a hose from the faucet
    > into the spindle, less technical, use a funnel, really simple aim the
    > water into it.
    >
    > Geoff.
    >
    > --
    > Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
    > IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
    > Visit my 'blog athttp://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/


    Really, one can be successful in processing film and still take many
    shortcuts (although there are some dangers in doing so). If you have
    a deep enough tray to fully submerge a reel, maintain a brisk flow of
    water, and leave the film on the Jobo reel it does work (I've tried
    it). It is not elegant, convenient or necessarily guaranteed in all
    circumstances. Under field conditions, it can work.

    If you try it be sure to consider how stable a "deep enough" tray is,
    and what are the consequences of dropping it (but then, you may not be
    as clumsy as I am).
     
    Peter, Jun 17, 2007
    #7
  8. Steven Woody

    ZoneIII

    Joined:
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    I realize that this thread is old but I stumbled upon it and I want to comment on the post made by Jean-David. He mentions that he washes his film for ten minutes then hypo clears it for one minute and then treats it in PhotoFlo. This is most definitely NOT the correct way to wash film. You DO NOT hypo clear AFTER washing the film. You do it before washing the film. Hypo clear's purpose is to help break down fixer so that wash time may be reduced. The best procedure is to give the film a quick rinse after fixing to get the bulk of the fixer out of the film. It's then treated in hypo clear for about three minutes. Then you wash the film for however long you have determined is necessary. Lastly, you treat it with PhotoFlo, preferably added to distilled water. Jean's method would not only NOT allow hypo clear to do it's job it would also leave hypo clear on the film and contaminate the PhotoFlo. I hope he hasn't been using his method for very long. At first I thought he may have made a typo but it's clear that he meant what he wrote.

    I am very suprised that nobody caught this very obvious error. With all due respect, I have to wonder if Jean-David has actually processed film or just read about it. I mean no disrespect at all but his error is so glaring and serious that I can't think of any other explanation. If he has used his method, he would be advised to rewash the film properly or risk having it deteriorate. In any case, it will have hypo clear on it. Again, hypo clear is used to SHORTEN wash times. It is not to be used after washing film.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2011
    ZoneIII, Jan 31, 2011
    #8
  9. Steven Woody

    ZoneIII

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    I must also comment on Peter's claim that "hypo sits on the bottom." This is not true. This is a myth that was pushed by the late Fred Picker to promote his print washers. Hypo does NOT sit on the bottom. Think about it: If it did, you would have to shake your container of hypo before using it and it woudl sink to the bottom of a tray of print fixer. In fact, it remains perfectly dispersed in water. It doesn't matter whether wash water leaves from the bottom or the top of the container in which it is washed. The process is one of dilution. To speed the process, it is often desirable to do several complete dumps and refills but it is not absolutely necessary. As long as the concentration of hypo in the film or print is less than that of the wash water, it will continue to disperse from the film or paper. As water is added and leaves the tank, tray, or washer during washing, the concentration fixer in the wash water is continuously reduced.

    I
     
    ZoneIII, Jan 31, 2011
    #9
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