Using Kodak Rapid Fix

Discussion in 'Kodak' started by Alan Smithee, Oct 20, 2004.

  1. Alan Smithee

    Alan Smithee Guest

    I have the rapid fix kit which makes a US gallon. If I mix it at working
    strength for fixing film do I just dilute it 1:1 for paper? Thx.
     
    Alan Smithee, Oct 20, 2004
    #1
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  2. I believe most people re-use rapid fix until exhausted. In this case you
    must mix two solutions - one for paper, one for film.
     
    Pieter Litchfield, Oct 20, 2004
    #2
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  3. Alan Smithee

    Tom Phillips Guest


    It tells you on the box how to mix for film and paper.

    If you choose to add the hardener, do not use for paper.

    You can fix for less time if you use rapid fix at
    archival processing strength. Instead of 1:7 mix
    at 1:3 or 1:4 (1+3 or 1+4) and fix prints for
    a maximum of one minute rather than 3.

    Most of the fixing takes place in the first 30
    seconds for most papers. You should test your
    paper's fix time to be sure.

    Some recent discussion on this is in Dan Quinn's
    threads

    "Re: Sodium or Ammonium, Ilford's 5-10-5 Wash Stands"

    "Ilford Abandons Archival Print Fix/Wash?"
     
    Tom Phillips, Oct 20, 2004
    #3
  4. No. Mix them separately. Don't use fixer for paper that has been used
    for film. Take HALF of the contents and make 1/2 gallon of film fixer.
    Take the other half and mix 1 gallon of paper fixer. NEVER use the
    same fixer for both.
     
    Uranium Committee, Oct 20, 2004
    #4
  5. Alan Smithee

    Alan Smithee Guest

    I can't believe the bottles inside the box don't even say how much fluid are
    in each. It just says 85 fl oz. on the outside of the box. They do state the
    mixing ratios.
     
    Alan Smithee, Oct 20, 2004
    #5
  6. Alan Smithee

    Alan Smithee Guest

    Use hardener in the film fixer but not the paper, or does that really
    matter. I wanted to try the Rapid Fix to basically speed up my film fix
    times. If I'm mixing two batches I might as well use regular fixer on the
    paper then.
     
    Alan Smithee, Oct 20, 2004
    #6
  7. Alan Smithee

    The Wogster Guest

    Many people don't bother with the hardener at all, if your careful with
    wet film in the darkroom, you really don't need it with modern films.
    Hardening does extend the wash times, it also does not work with all
    rapid fixers. Even 20 years ago, I didn't use a hardener, and never had
    a problem with damaged film because of it. I also used most chemicals
    one-shot style. Mix up a batch of fixer, pour whats needed into the
    film tank, do a roll and pitch it, a little more expensive, but knowing
    every roll had fresh developer and fresh fixer meant that I didn't need
    a stop bath, and that results would be consistant. The oldest film
    archive shows that this worked, even though the films are over 20 years
    old, no staining or problems due to exhausted chemistries.

    With paper, I would put half what I needed into the tray and add water
    to get what I needed, process say 10 sheets of paper, then pitch it and
    mix a new batch.

    W
     
    The Wogster, Oct 20, 2004
    #7
  8. No. Mix TWO batches. DO NOT use one kind for both. Kodak explicitly
    says not to do this. You should not be using powder fixer anyway. I
    use the hardener for both film and paper. It does not harm anything.
     
    Uranium Committee, Oct 20, 2004
    #8
  9. Alan Smithee

    Tom Phillips Guest

    Ignore the troll. And _don't_ mix up the whole bottle. Mix up
    (from the concentrate) only what you will need short term.

    Do not use the same for paper as for film, but concentrates
    last longer than working solutions...

    Also, many modern films don't require hardener, but it never
    hurts to add hardener to film fix and _some_ films still need it.
    (Tri-X, I think is one according to Kodak.)
     
    Tom Phillips, Oct 21, 2004
    #9
  10. Alan Smithee

    Alan Smithee Guest

    I'm trying to figure out what the ratio of Solution A to water is for small
    batches.
     
    Alan Smithee, Oct 21, 2004
    #10
  11. Alan Smithee

    Alan Smithee Guest

    What I was getting at was...since I'm going to need two bottles/jugs
    anyway... I could just as easily use Rapid Fix exclusively for my
    film....and use Kodak Fixer for my paper.
     
    Alan Smithee, Oct 21, 2004
    #11
  12. Alan Smithee

    Alan Smithee Guest

    What's the difference between using Rapid Fix or Kodak Fixer (classic) on
    paper assuming I'm ignoring Solution B. Are the times much different?
     
    Alan Smithee, Oct 21, 2004
    #12
  13. Alan Smithee

    The Wogster Guest

    Unlike developer, fixer is not affected much by air left in the bottle,
    so if you mix a large batch, it should keep well, in a tightly capped
    bottle, some people prefer glass for larger batches, as glass does not
    "breathe", while some plastics do. Like I said though, mix it as
    recommended for film strength, then mix that 1:1 for paper. Don't use
    fixer for paper that you have used for film..... I always had best
    success though, with 1 shot chemistries, no trying to remember how many
    rolls/sheets went through a bottle of chemistries, every batch got fresh
    chemistries.

    W
     
    The Wogster, Oct 21, 2004
    #13
  14. Alan Smithee

    Frank Pittel Guest

    : : >
    : >
    : > Alan Smithee wrote:
    : > >
    : > > : > > : > > > > I have the rapid fix kit which makes a US gallon. If I mix it at
    : working
    : > > > > strength for fixing film do I just dilute it 1:1 for paper? Thx.
    : > > >
    : > > > No. Mix them separately. Don't use fixer for paper that has been used
    : > > > for film. Take HALF of the contents and make 1/2 gallon of film fixer.
    : > > > Take the other half and mix 1 gallon of paper fixer. NEVER use the
    : > > > same fixer for both.
    : > >
    : > > Use hardener in the film fixer but not the paper, or does that really
    : > > matter. I wanted to try the Rapid Fix to basically speed up my film fix
    : > > times. If I'm mixing two batches I might as well use regular fixer on
    : the
    : > > paper then.
    : >
    : > Ignore the troll. And _don't_ mix up the whole bottle. Mix up
    : > (from the concentrate) only what you will need short term.
    : >
    : > Do not use the same for paper as for film, but concentrates
    : > last longer than working solutions...
    : >
    : > Also, many modern films don't require hardener, but it never
    : > hurts to add hardener to film fix and _some_ films still need it.
    : > (Tri-X, I think is one according to Kodak.)

    : What's the difference between using Rapid Fix or Kodak Fixer (classic) on
    : paper assuming I'm ignoring Solution B. Are the times much different?

    The biggest difference in my never humble opinion is that the rapid fix comes
    as a liquid concentrate and the classic Kodak fix comes as a powder. With the
    rapid fix you also have the choice of adding or not adding the hardener.

    I started using the rapid fix when I started a no powder policy in my darkroom.

    --




    Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
     
    Frank Pittel, Oct 21, 2004
    #14


  15. Don't use Kodak powdered fixer at all, for any reason. Rapid Fixer is
    better all around. It has much higher capacity and works much faster.
     
    Uranium Committee, Oct 21, 2004
    #15
  16. message
    This is good advice for sodium thiosulfate fixer but is
    not necessary for ammonium thiosulfate (rapid) fixer because
    the ammonium thiosulfate is very much less senstive to
    soluble iodide from film emulsions. Iodide is a powerful
    retarder of fixing. One reason a two bath fixing system is
    desirable is that the iodide mostly comes out in the first
    bath leaving the second one working without any retarding.
    Very small amounts of Iodide in fixing baths have some
    interesting properties. Adding Iodide to the fixing bath is
    standard practice for microfilm processing because it gives
    considerable protection to oxidation of the image.
     
    Richard Knoppow, Oct 21, 2004
    #16
  17. Alan Smithee

    Tom Phillips Guest

    Rapid fix is ammonium thiosulfate, and fixes at a faster rate.

    Just follow the instructions unless you choose the archival
    dilution. At 1+3 or 1+4 you only need to fix 1 minute maximum
    in a single bath fixer or 30 seconds each in a two bath fix.
    Be sure you monitor the fixer using a hypo check.

    I believe it's still 2-3 minutes each in sodium thiosulfate
    fixing baths (Kodak F5) at 1:7
     
    Tom Phillips, Oct 21, 2004
    #17
  18. Alan Smithee

    Tom Phillips Guest

    The problem with mixing a large batch of fix (and Alan is
    using rapid fix so no need to mix an entire package) is
    using and storing over a longer time period until the fix
    is exhausted will cause a precipitate in the storage bottle.
    very hard to clean.

    If you process a large number of prints or films this isn't
    an issue. But if you only process small batches of films or
    prints it's best and easy to simply mix only what you need
    from the concentrate. The ratio/amounts are simple: 1+4 for
    film and 1+7 for paper (or 1+4 archival short fix.)

    I.e., 1 ounce/ml fix concentrate plus 4 ounces/ml water.
     
    Tom Phillips, Oct 21, 2004
    #18
  19. Would a post-fix iodide rinse convey the same protection?
     
    Nicholas O. Lindan, Oct 21, 2004
    #19
  20. Alan Smithee

    Dan Quinn Guest

    I've read that the amount of silver iodide in IODIZED film
    runs two to three percent. Of course non-iodized films have no
    silver iodide. From my reading I've found that silver bromide
    is by and far the main halide of silver in films.
    Papers, save for one such as Azo which has silver chloride
    only, contain silver chloride and or bromide. I think it safe
    to say that most projection speed papers contain a mix of
    the two. Kentmere claims a little silver iodide in one
    of their paper emulsions.
    The ammonium ion will complex with silver in the presence
    of iodide but only to a very slight degree. The thiosulfate ion
    will complex with silver in the presence of iodide very much
    more so.
    All of the silver halides, chloride, bromide, and iodide,
    are considered insoluable; the less so in that order. Only the
    thiosulfate ion's great affinity for silver in the presence
    of any or all of the halides makes possible silver gelatin
    photography as we know it.
    If anybody doubts it, fix with fertilizer, ammonium sulfate.
    That and ammonium chloride may work well with Azo. Dan
     
    Dan Quinn, Oct 22, 2004
    #20
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