Vegas 5 Field Order Trouble

Discussion in 'Amateur Video Production' started by Will Dormann, Jun 7, 2004.

  1. Will Dormann

    Will Dormann Guest

    I've had the opportunity to work with Vegas 5.0 recently, and I've
    noticed that the Field Order settings in the software seem to be
    incorrect. I noticed this when playing a homebrew DVD on my TV. All
    of the titles of the DVD were created with Vegas 4, except for the last
    one. That was done with Vegas 5. The Vegas 5 title had the wrong
    field order. (telltale jumpy video)

    Since a picture is worth a thousand words, here's about 15,000 for you:
    http://dormcam.mine.nu:8080/vegas/

    Has anybody else here experienced any field order anomalies with Vegas
    5? Or can anybody else reproduce my findings?

    Thanks!
    -WD
     
    Will Dormann, Jun 7, 2004
    #1
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  2. Will Dormann

    Mike Kujbida Guest


    No problems here. I just finished up a graduation video with over 300
    images with at least 100 of them created or modified in Photoshop.

    A few things though.
    On your Vegas properties screen, choose "lower field first" and whatever
    other variables you usually use and then click the "Start all new projects
    with these settings" box. I did that when I ran it the first time and have
    had no problems since.

    If it's only a few images, you can right-click the event on the timeline,
    select "Properties > Video Event > Reduce interlace flicker" or "Properties
    The other thing that works is to apply a very mild gaussian blur to the
    clip. Some folks do this step only.

    The last issue is the folder you have your "Prerendered files folder" set
    to. Hopefully you have a separate drive for your video clips. I'd strongly
    recommend putting this folder there.
     
    Mike Kujbida, Jun 8, 2004
    #2
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  3. Will Dormann

    Will Dormann Guest

    Actually, I'm dealing with video that is upper field first. Not stills.

    Tried that. The output looks like this at a scene transition:
    http://dormcam.mine.nu:8080/vegas/half_d1_bottom_field_first.jpg
    (which I listed on the web page with my results that I posted earlier)


    -WD
     
    Will Dormann, Jun 8, 2004
    #3
  4. Will Dormann

    Will Dormann Guest

    I've updated the above page with a very short MPEG2 file to be used in
    the test.

    You can verify that the file is Top Field First in VirtualDub.
    Try saving it with Vegas5 to see if you get any similar results to mine.


    -WD
     
    Will Dormann, Jun 8, 2004
    #4
  5. Will Dormann

    Damien Smith Guest

    I've had the opportunity to work with Vegas 5.0 recently, and I've
    No problems here. I choose Upper Field First when I start a new project and
    when I encode with Mainconcept plugin, I choose Upper Field First also. I'm
    using an analogue capture card. I believe most DV footage is Lower Field
    First.
     
    Damien Smith, Jun 8, 2004
    #5
  6. Will Dormann

    Mike Kujbida Guest


    I'd really like to try it but, Using IE 6.0, when I click on your link, I
    get a page with only 2 images (project_properties.gif and
    half_d1_bottom_field_first.jpg). When I try to refresh the page, I get a
    small image of some guy (you??) giving the finger. Above it, are the words
    "Go Away. Welcome to Compton". WTF??
    BTW, using Netscape 4.8 brings me to to the guy right away.
    Image property is http://www.madgecko.com/yellow5/webcam.jpg

    Mike
     
    Mike Kujbida, Jun 8, 2004
    #6
  7. Will Dormann

    Will Dormann Guest

    Hm, try it again?



    -WD
     
    Will Dormann, Jun 8, 2004
    #7
  8. Will Dormann

    Will Dormann Guest


    Did you use my sample video which is upper field first?
    (the link is at the end of the page)



    -WD
     
    Will Dormann, Jun 8, 2004
    #8
  9. Will Dormann

    Mike Kujbida Guest


    Thanks. That's better. I'll have a look at it tomorrow.
    What exactly is it you want us to try and do with the test clip?

    Mike
     
    Mike Kujbida, Jun 8, 2004
    #9
  10. Will Dormann

    Will Dormann Guest


    Well, it's a clip that's upper field first.
    Your project should be set for upper field first, and the MPEG2 encoder
    should be set for upper field first.

    I'd like to know:
    Is a Full D1 MPEG2 output file upper field first?
    Is a Half D1 MPEG2 output upper field first or distorted/blended like my
    samples?
    Any other anomalies or differences from Vegas 4's behavior?

    thanks
    -WD
     
    Will Dormann, Jun 8, 2004
    #10
  11. Will Dormann

    erratic Guest

    I have the same problem with Vegas 5. Look like it's bad resizing from
    720x480 to 352x480. Try this:

    Put your clip on the timeline, right-click on it, and select Video Event
    Pan/Crop. From the presets choose 4:3 Standard TV aspect ratio. This
    will crop to 704x480. After that, change your project properties to
    704x480 (so just change the width, nothing else). Now render to MPEG-2
    352x480. Works fine for me now.
     
    erratic, Jun 9, 2004
    #11
  12. Will Dormann

    Will Dormann Guest


    Thanks for the reply! It's good to see that I'm not the only one. (I
    think)

    Yes, what you describe does fix the problem.

    So this is a bug in Vegas 5, right? Rending 720x480 source into
    352x480 video shouldn't touch a thing in the vertical direction. I
    would expect the output file to have the exact same interlacing
    properties as the input.


    -WD
     
    Will Dormann, Jun 9, 2004
    #12
  13. Will Dormann

    Will Dormann Guest

    In my original post, I had mentioned that I noticed there was a problem
    when I created a DVD and one of the chapters (Vegas5) was displaying
    jumpy due to an incorrect field order.

    Now that I think about it, that MPEG2 file was created with incorrect
    project properties. (Bottom field first)

    When I started looking into the problem, that's when I noticed this
    resize problem. I had assumed the field order was incorrect in
    addition to that, but that does not seem to be the case.


    -WD
     
    Will Dormann, Jun 9, 2004
    #13
  14. Will Dormann

    erratic Guest

    Yes, I agree it has to be a bug.

    But the correct way to resize 720 to 352 is cropping to 704 first.
    Of course that's assuming the 720x480 resolution was captured correctly
    in the first place. 720x480 is correct for NTSC DV, but wrong for most
    analog capture cards. I always capture PAL 704x576 or straight to
    352x576 (ATI Radeon card) so I had never noticed anything wrong, but
    I haven't been doing a lot of capturing and editing lately.
     
    erratic, Jun 9, 2004
    #14
  15. Will Dormann

    erratic Guest

    On the other hand, try this:

    Open your 720x480 clip and change the resolution (width only) to
    704x480. Vegas will not crop, it will fit the entire 720x480 frame in a
    704x480 frame and it will resize both vertically and horizontally to
    keep the aspect ratio correct. That's why you should never resize 720 to
    704 in Vegas, you should crop instead.
     
    erratic, Jun 9, 2004
    #15
  16. Will Dormann

    Will Dormann Guest


    Ah, I guess it's somewhat of a moot point, then.
    I've been working with 720 horizontal all along, but I have noticed that
    there are small black bars on the edges. Cropped to 704 first, the
    image takes up the full frame.

    Time to update my VirtualDub scripts...


    -WD
     
    Will Dormann, Jun 10, 2004
    #16
  17. Will Dormann

    markpw2 Guest

    I really need to find a copy of the Sony Mainconcept mpeg plugin so
    that I can import Mpeg II files into Sony Screenblast and Sony Vegas
    software. Can you please help me?

    Thanks,
    Mark
     
    markpw2, Jun 26, 2004
    #17
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