Wanted Agfa's Sistan or Kodak's Polytomer

Discussion in 'Kodak' started by theyankeesnapper, Jan 8, 2006.

  1. Hi:

    Anyone have any unwanted stocks of the referenced chemical's?
    I don't have the facility to use Kodak's Formula at home so I if I can
    purchase these from a Rec.Photo Dk Room subscriber all the better.


    Bob McCarthy

    Ps. I pay top dollar..
    theyankeesnapper, Jan 8, 2006
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  2. Many years ago, before Polytoner was put on the market,
    Kodak published a couple of formulas for making a
    combination toner from Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner and Kodak
    Brown Toner. The resulting toner is NOT identical to
    Polytoner but is similar and may do what you want. The tone
    varies with the ratio of the constituent toners and the
    amount of added alkali. I've tested the formula as given and
    it works quite well. It tones very fast, about a minute for
    most papers I've tried and no more than about 2 minutes for
    any paper I tested. The toned prints should be bathed in a
    solution of 10% Sodium Sulfite or in stock strength Kodak
    Hypo Clearing Agent to stop the toning and clear the yellow
    stain. However, rapid rinsing right after toning also seems
    to work. The Sulfite solution is quite definite in removing
    any staining and IMO preferable to just a water rinse. Wash
    prints as you would for just fixed prints although a shorter
    wash is probably OK. I will give the formula that I tried,
    this one uses Sodium carbonate, the two other formulas found
    in Kodak handbooks, use Kodalk (Sodium metaborate) which
    will probably work in this formula also. I am not posting
    those because I have not tried them.
    The shelf life of the diluted toner seems to be quite
    long, I have some which must be 6 months old now and has not
    discolored (it starts out brown) and still works.
    The toner does have a strong Hydrogen Sulfide odor (rotten
    eggs) so should be used where there is plentiful ventilation
    and away from sensitized photographic material, which can be
    fogged by this gas.

    Kodak Combination Toner
    Water 500.0 ml
    Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner concentrate 80.0 ml
    Kodak Brown Toner 320.0 ml
    Sodium Carbonate, desiccated 160.0 gram
    Water to make 1.0 Liter

    For use dilute 1 part concentrate to 3 parts water.

    I found it easier to mix this at working strength.
    Richard Knoppow, Jan 9, 2006
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  3. theyankeesnapper

    seog Guest

    Can I get your evaluation of the tone relative to sepia, brown or selenium?
    Is there a significant increase in density?
    seog, Jan 15, 2006
  4. The color of course varies with the paper. On cold tone papers it
    produces little change and that towards purple. On warm tone paper the
    tone is similar to Brown toner but slightly shifted toward purple. This
    is for toning to completion.
    I got so much variation among the papers I tested that its hard to
    pin the characteristic color down. I still have a bottle of Polytoner
    and will make a comparison test. The formula I gave is NOT identical to
    Polytoner according to the MSDS for Polytoner. The formula predates
    Note also that the resulting tone will vary with the ratio of KBT
    to KRST and probably also with the amount of Carbonate used (haven't
    tried this yet).
    The toner does not seem to intensify the image.
    If you like reddish Sepia tones you may want to try a Gold tone
    modifier. Gold toner produces a blue tone. Like KRST, it has little
    effect on cold or neutral tone papers but a strong effect on warm tone
    papers. when a print is toned in a sepia toner first (sulfiding, not
    Selenium), it produces a red tone. The addition of a Gold tone modifier
    to a direct sepia toner will shift the tone toward a redish brown.
    I am away from home at the moment but if you are intrested I will
    post the formulas later.

    Richard Knoppow
    Richard Knoppow, Jan 15, 2006
  5. I thought I responded to this but maybe not.
    In general, the tones are somewhat cooler than KBT. There
    does not appear to be any intensification. The image color
    varies tremendously with different papers. For Kodak
    Polycontrast IV there is a slight cooling of the color, on
    Kentmere warmtone it produces a nice slightly reddish brown.
    Kodak published two other formulas for combining KBT and
    KRST, these employ Kodalk and have different ratios of the
    two toners. Evidently, the image color can be varied by
    changing the ratio of the toners and probably by the amount
    of alkali included. I have not tested these other formulas.
    Here are the formulas. Unfortunately, this is from a
    Wordperfect document and the formatting may not be correct.

    Combination Toner

    Kodak Rapid Selenium toner and Kodak brown toner can be
    combined to give a single-solution toner which works rapidly
    at room temperature. This combination toner is recommended
    for Kodak warm tone papers.

    Two pleasing intermediate hues to those of Kodak Rapid
    Selenium Toner and Kodak Brown Toner, a rich red-brown (Hue
    No.1) and a warm brown (Hue No.2) can be obtained from the
    following formulas.

    Hue No.1

    Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner 17.0 ml

    Kodak Brown Toner 75.0 ml

    Kodalk Balanced Alkali 30.0 grams

    Water to make 1.0 liter

    Tone Prints for 3 minutes at 70F

    Capacity: 80 8x10 prints per gallon

    Replenisher: Selenium Toner diluted 1:5 add 30.0 ml per ten
    8x10 prints

    Capacity with replenisher: 150 8x10 prints per gallon.

    Hue No.2

    Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner 2.0 ml

    Kodak Brown Toner 100.0 ml

    Kodalk Balanced Alkali 8.0 grams

    Water to make 1.0 liter

    Tone prints for 7 minutes at 70F

    Capacity: 40 8x10 prints per gallon

    Replenisher: Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner diluted 1:20. Add
    30.0 ml per ten 8x10 prints.

    Capacity replenished: 150 8x10 prints per gallon.

    Source: _Professional Printing with Kodak Photographic
    Products_, Publication G5, 1952 edition.

    Another combination toner formula attributed to Kodak is as

    Water 500.0 ml

    Sodium Carbonate, anhydrous 160.0 grams

    Kodak Brown Toner 320.0 ml

    Kodak Rapid Selenium toner 80.0 ml

    Water to make 1.0 liter

    Dilute 1: 3 for use.

    Tone 3 to 5 minutes at 68F. And clear in Kodak Hypo Clearing

    Source: _Modern Photography_, December 1953, p.87

    From the MSDS for Polytoner this is pretty close to the
    commercial product.

    Polytoner was not sold at the time these formulas were

    As I noted in the original post the above toner works
    fast. While the instructions say 3 to 5 minutes, it will
    tone many papers within a minute.

    All of these should be followed by a stop/clearing bath
    of either stock strength Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent or 10%
    Sodium Sulfite. The bath works in a few seconds but prints
    should probably be left in it for a minute or so before
    Richard Knoppow, Jan 18, 2006
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