what has photography got to do with photography??

Discussion in 'Australia Photography' started by k, Aug 1, 2004.

  1. k

    k Guest

    attempting to bring muddled thoughts cohesively together I ponder..

    on a group about photography, what is considered off topic?

    Discussions about the merits of this image or that image?
    Conversations or enquiries about cameras?
    Requests for advice or personal experience pertaining to equipment?
    Alerts to new technologies which may impact on traditions?
    Queries about techniques?
    Sellers hoping to advertise equipment others might want?
    Information about retailers and their pricing?
    Upcoming photo opportunities?

    now we're in the digi-age there are also photography related issues which cross
    the traditional boundaries as well - should these be considered off topic?

    Archiving techniques?
    Video card discussions re optimum qualities?
    Monitors? ..a bit like discussing paper qualities really
    for that matter, media? we used to discuss media!
    Software is important too, yes?
    Virus alerts? Maybe the computer illiterate photographer might benefit..

    hmm.. things I can't imaging being ON topic (but I may be wrong..)

    fords V holdens.
    DVD hacking guides
    Alcohol consumption.
    recipies for anything containing rhubarb
    the relative stability of Xenon complexes
    hemp cultivation techniques
    statistical dialogues on the eye colour of drosera
    how much cheese one can eat before one vomits
    how kewl powderfinger are or are not
    any conversation containing the word scrotum
    people repetitively replying to threads saying things are OT

    but like I said, maybe I'm wrong..

    k, Aug 1, 2004
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  2. k

    kosh Guest

    any conversation containing the word scrotum

    poor Crumpler. Their "Scrote Bag" won't get a mention!


    p.s. tend to agree. but there has to be some computer/hardware crossover.
    kosh, Aug 1, 2004
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  3. k

    Miro Guest

    How to take a photo, a presentation of photos and ideas on method is

    Transferring, copying, uploading, storing is not photography.
    Miro, Aug 1, 2004
  4. k

    Justin Thyme Guest

    All the above are on-topic IMO.
    not really on-topic. part of the trouble with virus alerts is that most of
    the ones that get posted to NG's and emails are actually hoaxes anyway.
    I think photos of holdens are much better than photos of fords
    What's the best way to groom a poodle for a photograph?
    Do they enhance my photography?
    A cat hacking up a DVD - now that'd be a photo opportunity.
    Isn't there a light sensitive emulsion you can make containing rhubarb?
    can you make cellulose from hemp?
    does eye colour affect perceived colour of a photograph?
    how many fumes from the darkroom can one breath before one vomits the cheese
    he hate.
    i heard they are kewl subjects to photograph
    there is a genre of photography that specialises in photos of scrotums and
    other similar bodily parts. From what I hear there is lots of money to be
    made in this field of photography.
    Justin - trying desperately to get all the possible threads on-topic.
    Justin Thyme, Aug 1, 2004
  5. k

    Henrik Tived Guest

    Miro, and others

    as you may have noticed cameras have become computerized capture devices
    that can emulate much of what is done by conventional cameras, however
    dropping they storage device (aka film) it to a developer tank doesn't do
    much good for it, so the use of transferring devices to their storage
    containers with their attached viewing attachment (aka the computer - and
    this could be either a Mac or PC or any other computerized machine deemed
    suitable by its user)

    I am sure I don't have to continue this ...but you do get the point that
    though film and digital both capture images, they do have different tools to
    deal with the post processing - perhaps we need a aus.photo.digital ?

    their are things to be learned from both ends of the of the poles - so why
    not play ball together all of us and share what we know, instead of
    througing rocks at each other, just because someone has a bigger one!

    to answer your question, YES all the actions mention are valid to
    photography, where people choose to capture with a digital device

    Kindest regards


    PS: I could have missed things but I am sure you got the point :)
    Henrik Tived, Aug 2, 2004
  6. k

    kosh Guest

    when major camera dealers are pulling the Film cameras out of the main
    cabinets and replacing with digital. Perhaps the newsgroup should not shunt
    digi elsewhere. For all intents and purposes it is current day
    photography... i still love film though.

    cameras have become computerized capture devices
    does it not really depend on how the user appraches it. This is really the
    same type of argument as SLR vs. Compact.

    kosh, Aug 2, 2004
  7. k

    Miro Guest

    When you produce a photo it is photography. How and why and for what reason
    and for how much money - just a trivial side comment.

    The side comment is all I see now. I dont need it. Show me some images or at
    least bring some ideas not hopeless desires to justify nothing.
    Miro, Aug 2, 2004
  8. k

    Justin Thyme Guest

    So are you saying that all this newsgroup should contain is links to photos?
    Surely it is not off-topic to ask for tips on how to take better photos.
    Going alongside with that is asking tips on what type of equipment to use to
    take those photos, and for suggestions on where to buy that equipment
    (although I do agree that the line "where's the cheapest place to buy..."
    gets a bit thin).
    Having taken that photo, it is still on-topic to discuss what to do with it
    once you have pressed the shutter button. If taken on film, it is on-topic
    to discuss processing techniques, printing techniques and storage techniques
    of the prints and slides/negatives. If taken on digital it is on-topic to
    discuss things relating to viewing, storage and printing of the image,
    including the equipment to do that. All these things are inextricably
    linked to photography, and therefore relevant to this NG.
    Justin Thyme, Aug 2, 2004
  9. You're never going to convince him otherwise.....

    David Springthorpe, Aug 2, 2004
  10. k

    Miro Guest

    * surely the advice is based on a photo not a printer or a USB drive.
    * equipment ? That is a 1990's fad that hasnt died yet. For the 90 years
    prior to that there was no choice if any. So talks about choice are pure
    self gratification.
    * I never realised it made me a better photographer to have a better PC or
    printer but according to your definition it all matters. Now that we all
    have great printers why arent we all winning international photography
    contests ? I think I've made my point.
    Miro, Aug 2, 2004
  11. k

    Miro Guest

    Coming from you that is just another portrayal of your lack of contribution
    rather than a statement about my frame of mind.
    Miro, Aug 2, 2004
  12. k

    Trentus Guest

    Apparently the number one thing you'll never hear a woman say: "Now that's
    an attractive looking scrotum"
    But that wouldn't be on the topic of photography.

    This just might be:
    I took very close to 1GIG of photographs on a recent 3 week trip, 897
    images, while travelling in the Outback of Australia.
    Now, partly because sometimes you get a better result than you might have
    expected, I always use the maximum resolution (short of going to RAW), so
    they sure fill up the 256meg card fast. Which means constantly having to
    transfer them to something. What do the digital photographers amongst you
    use to put the images on, or do you just invest in multiple cards (at up to
    $250 per card, I'm not keen on owning too many of them). Having to lug a
    laptop around the desert wasn't really the ideal in my opinion.
    Secondly, the incredibly long delay from when you finish pressing the
    button, to when it captures the image, means the shot you wanted is often
    NOT the shot you get. The FujiFinepix S5000 has such a long delay, that even
    if you press it halfway to prefocus, the delay is so long that while trying
    to capture a little girl in her Dad's arms, sharing her iceblock with him,
    if you pressed the button the rest of the way when she held it up to him for
    a bite, he had already taken the bite, and she'd taken the iceblock back,
    before it would capture the image. To try to overcome this, I often use the
    5 shot sequence feature that takes 5 shots over about a second or so. This
    also helps incase someone has blinked, in one of the shots they'll have
    their eyes open again. But taking everything in 5's, and only having the
    tiny little screen on the back with which to preview them, means that in
    bright light especially, such as outdoors, it's nearly impossible to decide
    which of the 5 to keep until viewed on a fullsize screen. So there the
    laptop was worth having. Every night I could go through and discard the
    unnecessary duplicates etc.
    Any techniques others use to overcome the storage problem (insert the:
    "yeah, I throw the ROLL OF FILM in an esky" comments here), and the delay
    problem with some digitals?

    So why do I use digital and not a REAL camera?
    I'm just learning photography, only been taking photo's in any serious
    manner for just under a year, and in my opinion there is NO BETTER way to
    learn than to get an INSTANT RESULT. For example, the camera I use has the
    option of manual setting, I have no idea how to set aperture, length of
    exposure, etc. but want to learn, so I use the camera in manual I set up a
    scene, I change the setting one notch, I take the shot, I see the result, I
    try another notch take the shot, I see the result, and repeat till you find
    the best settings and what effect each setting had, INSTANT FEEDBACK teaches
    very quickly how each change affects the result. That's why I use digital.
    Once I've learned a whole heap more I might consider a really good FILM
    camera, but for learning I don't think you can beat the digital's instant

    Trentus, Aug 2, 2004
  13. k

    Justin Thyme Guest

    Equipment does make a difference, especially for the people whose budgets
    are limited and are thus choosing between different P&S models. I agree that
    the equipment doesn't make the photographer - a good photographer can take
    good photos even with the most basic equipment, but i'm sure you'd agree
    they take better photos with better equipement - why don't pro's use
    disposable cams as their main camera??
    Not everyone classifies "better photographer" based on what wins awards. For
    many "better photographer" also includes having a way of printing the photo
    of their family as an 8x10 and not having it fade away to nothing in 12
    months. 99% of photos taken have no interest to anyone except the person
    who took them, and their family, yet those photos are precious to those
    people - is it wrong for them to ask for ways of making those photos last?
    of course not, and it all comes under the banner of photographer. 99% of
    photography is amateur photography (not even serious amateur), those 99% of
    people have just as much right to use this forum as the pro's do. Obviously
    the needs of an amateur are seriously different to the needs of a pro.
    Justin Thyme, Aug 2, 2004
  14. k

    Miro Guest

    * useless assumption driven by marketing and glossy images. Has no bearing
    on the history of images.

    * Ever see a photo collection in a dumpster ? That is what happens to photos
    when someone passes away. They only mean something to the person that took
    them. Good photos get reframed.
    Miro, Aug 3, 2004
  15. k

    Narelle Guest

    I have done a number of camping trips, and find a laptop the best
    solution for storage. I own a digital wallet (a dinosaur by todays
    standards) also, but find it more unreliable than the laptop. I also
    have about 2G worth of cards, but like to download and edit each night
    or so when traveling. For longer trips, the laptop comes in handy for a
    whole heap of other things anyway; watching dvd's, keeping diaries,
    schoolwork etc. I take a fair bit of photography equipment, so a laptop
    isn't such a big deal, and I have learnt to pack for trips with
    incredible precision. Of course the laptop could crash, could get stolen
    or lost or broken (mine, a mac g3, survived a roll-over a couple of
    years ago without any problems despite it being thrown around the back
    of the car, and being covered in fine red desert dust) or...but any
    storage form has its pros and cons and a laptop works best for me.
    I do that also, although I have a 100L waeco. Sometimes slide is the
    only way to go for a desert sunset.
    I have no experience with your camera so shall leave others to comment,
    apart from "practice, practice, practice"
    All good reasons.
    And also a reason to take a laptop to see what you are doing with more
    detail; for example, the flower you showed us would have been better
    with less dof, something that can be hard to notice on the camera's lcd,
    but easily seen on a bigger screen.
    Thanks for sharing your pics. Makes me want to get away again soon! All
    going to plan, should be off for 6-8 weeks Dec/Jan!
    Or consider a dslr.
    Narelle, Aug 3, 2004
  16. k

    DJ! Guest

    Really? ;-)

    Cheers... Derek (DJ)
    DJ!, Aug 3, 2004
  17. k

    kosh Guest

    I bet it's also the number one thing you'll never hear a man say!
    good! it's a lot harder to add dots if you get one you like. thinking about
    another post of someone who missed a water spout, do you think it will wait
    while you change the res of the camera to a higher setting? Or better yet,
    what do you think a shot would be worth if it was at a useless res?

    small, portable, solid state, and getting cheaper all the time! Also helps
    avoid too many eggs in one basket!
    there are product either on the way or already here which will help. I am
    going o/s to look at importing some.

    1. like a card reader but burns a cd straight from the card. many also
    offer video out, mp3 etc as well
    2. Digital wallet type set-up. As another person posted, these can be a
    pain and are expensive. Not to mention it has a hard drive which is not
    resiliant to knocks.
    3. find a internet cafe that will let you burn...... not many in the
    desert though.
    most cameras allow you to use the zoom in playback. good enough to check sha
    rpness and make sure eyes are open.... turf the rest!

    even experienced photogrpahers can fall into the trap of shoot it, check it,
    adjust and re-shoot. Digital is dangerous in this respect. Great for
    learning though.
    at some point make a concerted effort to take the shot with the settings you
    expect to work! Try to learn to evaluate a scene.... lot's of shadow,
    therefore underexpose by 1 stop.... take the shot! You can always re-shoot
    the scene, but try to get it right first time. It will help develop your
    eye. That was one good thing about film..... it makes you think hard before
    you puch the button! Digi can make you lazy IF YOU LET IT! Otherwise... digi
    is a great way to go if you are aware of the pitfalls.

    and what effect each setting had, INSTANT FEEDBACK teaches
    hope this helps,

    kosh, Aug 3, 2004
  18. k

    Narelle Guest

    Thank goodness someone's body protected the computer from certain
    destruction! That man deserved more drugs than he was given at the time,
    and not one, but 2 careflight bears
    Narelle, Aug 4, 2004
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