What is better for a client.....

Discussion in 'Amateur Video Production' started by Newbun, Jun 3, 2005.

  1. Newbun

    Newbun Guest

    A dvd printed with a high dpi onto a high gloss paper stick on label,
    or the label printed directly onto a white matte pre-papered dvd?

    Thanks
     
    Newbun, Jun 3, 2005
    #1
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  2. Newbun

    Steve King Guest

    With paper labels there are performance risks in individual players.
    Sometimes they work. Sometimes they don't. Is the risk worth the enhanced
    appearance? I choose to print on matt-white discs.

    Steve King
     
    Steve King, Jun 3, 2005
    #2
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  3. Newbun

    L.P.LePage Guest

    Neither
    You should use a DVD with a White face that is able to be printed on UP TO
    THE hub.
    Then print the lable with a Epson R-200 or similar.
    The quality is outstanding.
     
    L.P.LePage, Jun 3, 2005
    #3
  4. Newbun wrote ...
    I couldn't agree more. You DO *NOT* want to put paper labels on
    DVDs period. Doesn't matter what kind or when or how you stick
    them on, they are bad news.

    I use exclusively Taiyo Yuden printable DVDs from SuperMediaStores
    See the discussion of media quality at www.digitalfaq.com
    I also use an Epson R-300 to print them. See my Video BKM
    page (I wrote last weekend):
    http://www.rcrowley.com/VideoBKM.htm
     
    Richard Crowley, Jun 3, 2005
    #4
  5. Although the R200 produces a good quality image on discs, is ink smudging
    not a major problem? If smudged, this looks terrible is this area going to
    improve. I have read some ridiculous posts suggesting users should spray
    discs with lacquer, etc.
     
    David Donegan, Jun 3, 2005
    #5
  6. "David Donegan" wrote ...
    Alternatives:
    * Screen-printing (expensive setup, impractical for short-run)
    * Thermal printing (limited coverage, mostly 1-color)
    * Sealing (spraying, etc)
    * Live with it (only really a problem if it gets wet, IME)

    Any other alternatives?

    To bad there isn't a way to do laser-printing onto discs. :)

    Inkjet printing on labels rather than directly on the disk has no
    effect on this issue that I am aware of. Of course laser printing
    solves the smudging problem, but stick-on labels are not
    practical for use on DVD discs.
     
    Richard Crowley, Jun 3, 2005
    #6
  7. Newbun

    Ken Maltby Guest


    Not a problem, if your printer is reasonably clean and
    the newly printed disks are properly handled. In a home/
    small production process you would want to make a
    "cooling" spindle; by placing those little foam hub spacers
    between your disks. Left for 24hrs, they should be totally
    unsmudgeable. This is somewhat overkill, but would
    eliminate any potential smudgeability.

    Luck;
    Ken
     
    Ken Maltby, Jun 3, 2005
    #7
  8. Newbun

    Mardon Guest

    What about LightScribe labels? I know they cannot be printed in colour but
    they seem to look good just the same. Do you consider them to be safe for
    archival storage?
     
    Mardon, Jun 3, 2005
    #8
  9. The issue isn't archival storage. The issue is that DVD discs spin at a
    much faster RPM, and the track is much narrower than a CD, so an
    off-center stick-on label will cause extra vibration. After a certain point,
    (unpredictable and uncontrollable) the optical head can no longer cope
    with the vibration and you loose the ability to read anything off the disc.

    DVDR discs are in a way better than CDR discs for archival storage
    because the data layer is sandwiched between two (relatively) thick
    layers of plastic. Whereas the data surface on CDRs is hanging out
    there on the top (right under the label). Any scratching, gouging,
    peeling, etc. will ruin the ability to recover the data.

    OTOH, the archival qualities of the photosensitive dyes is an open
    question as nobody has any real long-term experience with them.
    I do know that I have CDR discs from ~5 years ago that are no
    longer readable.

    Light-scribe labeling is an open question in my estimation. The discs
    and the drives cost more (market share). They are limited to mono-
    chrome. But they are likely more smudge proof than printed discs.
    OTOH, we don't know how "sunlight-resistant" they are. I wouldn't
    leave one sitting out exposed to sunlight.
     
    Richard Crowley, Jun 4, 2005
    #9
  10. Newbun

    Mardon Guest

    Thanks very much for your through reply. I have a LightScribe drive, so I
    guess that I'll use that media and label them accordingly. At least they
    shouldn't exhibit the balance problem that paper labels do. Maybe I'll burn
    a label and let it lay in the sun intentionally to see if / how quickly it
    fades. Thanks again.
     
    Mardon, Jun 4, 2005
    #10
  11. "Mardon" wrote ...
    Do the experiment like the photo people do: Lay black paper
    over part of the surface so you can see the difference between
    the exposed and the protected portions. You could even do a
    "test strip" where you expose another 1/2" each day or two to
    see if/how it changes over time. That would be something of
    interest to a lot of people interested in LightScribe.
     
    Richard Crowley, Jun 4, 2005
    #11
  12. Newbun

    Mardon Guest

    OK. I'll do the test as you suggest and report back here in a couple of
    months. Do you think that will be long enough to see a difference? I was
    thinking that fading would take years, not weeks. Anyway, I'll try it and
    see what happens.
     
    Mardon, Jun 4, 2005
    #12
  13. Newbun

    DanR Guest

    At work we use the stick on paper labels for DVDs and CDs. Our duplication dept.
    services clients from 6 Avid & 2 audio rooms and makes many one-off DVDs and if
    needed a handful of copies from a 7x tower. Point of last sentence is that we
    have made thousands of DVDs in the past year or so for many, many different
    clients. Not once has there been a problem with a stick on paper label. Never a
    complaint about a DVD not playing or a label peeling off or causing a wobble
    problem because it might not be centered absolutely perfectly. We do use the
    white DVD/CDs from time to time to print directly on the DVD but it's a slow
    process. Almost 3 minutes per disk and then the smear risk.
     
    DanR, Jun 5, 2005
    #13
  14. An interesting (to me, anyway) thought: what about the data layer?

    I understand that the DataScribe burns away a coating on the top layer.
    This might end up allowing sunlight through to the data layer that lies
    below.

    Perhaps after a few days in the sunlight, looking at the data side of
    the DVD would show a mirror image of the label side...

    This is (presumably) a bit academic, since there aren't many people who
    would store their DVDs exposed to sunlight - or am I foolishly
    optimistic?

    Gino
     
    Gene E. Bloch, Jun 5, 2005
    #14
  15. How do you position/apply the labels?
     
    Richard Crowley, Jun 5, 2005
    #15
  16. Newbun

    DanR Guest

    CD Stomper gadget and another from Neato that looks / works the same way.
    Truthfully, we've never had a DVD come back because it didn't work. I do
    understand there could be some long term issues with paper labels. Glue etc. At
    least I've read that. We aren't too concerned with the longevity of DVDs we make
    as they are usually (not always) used for approval purposes.
    We buy pre-printed (company logo etc.) labels. I've noticed that they are less
    sticky than some blank labels from places like Office Max. (Neato) Our labels
    will NOT stick to the white blank CD / DVDs meant for direct printing. They just
    fall off. But they stick fine to ordinary DVD-Rs like normal Maxell etc. In fact
    after they've been attached for half hour or so they will not come off in one
    piece. So it seems they have less adhesive than other blank labels.
     
    DanR, Jun 5, 2005
    #16
  17. Newbun

    George Guest

    Dan wrote...
    CD Stomper gadget and another from Neato that looks / works the same way.
    Truthfully, we've never had a DVD come back because it didn't work. I do
    understand there could be some long term issues with paper labels. Glue etc. At
    least I've read that. We aren't too concerned with the longevity of DVDs we make
    as they are usually (not always) used for approval purposes.
    We buy pre-printed (company logo etc.) labels. I've noticed that they are less
    sticky than some blank labels from places like Office Max. (Neato) Our labels
    will NOT stick to the white blank CD / DVDs meant for direct printing. They just
    fall off. But they stick fine to ordinary DVD-Rs like normal Maxell etc. In fact
    after they've been attached for half hour or so they will not come off in one
    piece. So it seems they have less adhesive than other blank labels.

    Dan, I'm glad you commented on this. Used stick-on labels here for years on CDs and

    DVDs without problems using similar methods as you described. I have never seen one
    cause problems. Have made dozens of CDs of my own trumpet music for friends and
    dozens of DVDs of my video programs without problems. Glad to know I'm not alone in
    using this technology <g>.

    George
     
    George, Jun 5, 2005
    #17
  18. Newbun

    kashe Guest

    Unless you're planning to store your DVDs out in the sun (dumb
    idea anyway) why do you care to go through all this?
     
    kashe, Jun 8, 2005
    #18
  19. Because in Real Life (TM) people DO leave discs laying out in
    the sun. It would be nice if that didn't destroy them.
     
    Richard Crowley, Jun 8, 2005
    #19
  20. Newbun

    kashe Guest

    In Real Life (TM) people lay themselves out in the sun, too,
    with sub-optimal resuts. Everyone has known since the days of Vinyl
    records it's a bad idea to leave media (or even media players) out.
     
    kashe, Jun 11, 2005
    #20
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