What the pros use to power their flashes... and their digital cameras.

Discussion in 'Digital Cameras' started by Dan Sullivan, Jan 1, 2004.

  1. Dan Sullivan

    Dan Sullivan Guest

    For years the professionals in the photo industry have been powering their
    flashes with Quantum Battery packs

    And as they swiched over to digital photography so did their Quantum
    Batteries.

    And as the pros discovered that the batteries in their digital cameras
    weren't lasting as long as they needed Quantum started producing products to
    power the new cameras AT THE SAME TIME it powered the flash.

    One battery, two cords - one to the camera - one to the flash.

    http://www.qtm.com/

    Not that I don't use NI-MH batteries.

    For family stuff I do.

    But when you need your camera and flash to be recycled and powered up from
    the beginning of a long session till the end without stopping to change
    batteries... Quantum's the way to go.

    The better camera stores stock Quantum products... let a salesman show you
    what Quantum can do for you.

    Best, Dan Sullivan
     
    Dan Sullivan, Jan 1, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertisements

  2. Is that a question? In that case: No. Not all of them.
    Many professionals then and now are using NiCd cells
    or NiMH cells and don't bother with a separate device
    with extra cables and shoulder strap.
    Then they probably picked the wrong tool. I can shoot
    hundreds of photos with one battery set in my EOS DSLR.

    Are you sure you are not being paid by Quantum to
    post that much of advertising?
     
    Michael Quack, Jan 3, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertisements

  3. Dan Sullivan

    Dan Sullivan Guest

    I didn't say "all."
    I said in my post I use NiMH batteries for certain things.

    And I use NiCads, as well.

    BTW the Bantam, the Battery 1+, and the Turbo Compact Batteries mount to the
    camera's tripod socket.

    And the batteries that could be used with a shoulder strap many
    photographers simply clip them to their belt.

    (I don't like shoulder straps)
    Good for you.
    Not a penny.

    I've also recommended Ansmann Ni-MH battery chargers... Tenba bags... white
    umbrellas... whatever I know would make a photographer's life easier or
    their pictures better.

    Benbo tripods. Velbon tripods. Gitzo tripods. Leica ballheads. Manfrotto
    monopods. Lumiquest Pocket Bouncers. Osram flashes. Vivitar 283s, 285s.
    Justrite brackets. Stroboframe brackets. Canon cameras. Fuji 645AF. Olympus
    digital cameras. Pentax Spotmatics. Kenko soft focus lenses. Pentax
    binoculars. Sigma cameras and lenses. Crumpler bags. Apacer Disc Steno
    portable CD burner. (this is the stuff in my living room)

    I recommend all of these products... to the people who they'd help.

    With the posts I read about camera and flash battery problems I simply
    posted some information and suggested "let a salesman show you what Quantum
    can do for you."

    This just showed up on the NG,

    "We have recently started using new Nikon D-100's at work and I love this
    new
    camera. However, I have found that the SB-80DX flash goes through regular
    alkaline batteries fast. I was thinking about trying NiMH batteries with
    the
    flash. Has anyone tried rechargable batteries with digital flashes? If so,
    was their lifetime longer than non-rechargable batteries?"

    Do you think there's something wrong with letting this guy know that there's
    a battery system that powers not only his flash but his camera at the same
    time?

    If what I recommend isn't for you... fine.

    But as a wise man once said "Sharing produces growth."

    Have fun, Dan Sullivan
     
    Dan Sullivan, Jan 3, 2004
    #3
  4. "The professionals" sounds pretty absolute to me.....
    Which might mean you are not a professional, given
    that after your statements the professionals don't.
    ....making the camera very heavy. I like heavy cameras,
    but at a certain point extra weight gets counterproductive.
    When I'm shooting nightlife, the combo 10D/Big Ed/2.8/20-35
    and Metz 45 flash are heavy enough. I don't need any extra
    ballast.
    Which still leaves the extra cord as a source of problems.
    Okay, then. Just sounded a bit too absolute in
    your original post for me.
    You had maybe done good by also mentioning the
    comparatively high cost and extra bulk just to
    round off your advice.
    That wasn't what it sounded like. It was more like
    "Professionals use this, period".
    Not if you don't start with overkill equipment but instead
    start with the obvious and wise thing to do: NiCd cells
    or NiMH cells with appropriate chargers like Ansmann or Maha.
    Mention the self discharge level of NiMH cells, the better
    performance of NiCd in low temperatures and the higher
    capacities of NiMH at very reasonable prices and you did
    a good job. After that you can still mention the Quantum,
    which from his point of view (just using regular alkalines
    easily shows he's a beginner) is certainly pure overkill.
    Right. Which is why I share a bit of caution about
    too absolute appraisals of products.

    One or two sets of high capacity NiMH cells with a good
    charger should do for the original poster. In case of
    use in low temperatures or long storage without use
    maybe NiCd would be better because they simply perform
    better in this profile.
     
    Michael Quack, Jan 3, 2004
    #4
  5. Now here we start a nice educated discussion,
    backed up with loads of facts...... er, insults
    on your side.
    Hmm. The guide number is not changing with the
    battery used. More flash power? Faster recycle
    times would be achievable, yes. More flash
    power, no.
    Some do, but certainly not all, as Dan's posting
    seems to suggest.
    Which are dead wrong.
    Which is the only reason apart from high
    capacity batteries.

    But bear in mind that many flash guns will
    fry when used at max output in fast firing
    sequence. After a certain number of flashes
    any handheld/portable flash unit will need
    time to cool down or it will inevitably fry.

    (more mindless insults snipped)
    I am using either AA cells (I think you mean
    double A?) or D cells in my Metz guns. Recycle
    times are at 6 seconds maximum if full power
    flash output was used.
    Which might result in a fried flash in the long run.
    For long shootings over long hours several sets
    of AA cells are indeed much more handy to use.
    Good for you if you are pumping iron next to the
    Gropinator, but there are certainly more people
    not willing to pack yet another kilogram of batteries.
    I do. I check what the reasonable thing to do would be.
    Spewing insults with little to no substance in facts like
    you do is certainly no way to create the impression of
    a knowledgeable person.

    And you forget that using flash in combination with
    low speed film will lead to flash only pictures, which
    will in return often be very dull in atmosphere, and
    very flat in lighting with a number of extra disadvantages.

    Yes, you can enlarge that crap to bigger prints.
    But it will remain crap. Just like your foul language.
     
    Michael Quack, Jan 3, 2004
    #5
  6. Dan Sullivan

    Dan Sullivan Guest

    Oh.

    You're gonna use facts, Mr. Quack?

    We'll see.
    Shooting with the flash in manual mode will give the photographer more flash
    power and a smaller f-stop.

    Or the photograher could use a lower ISO, the same f-stop, and get better
    pictures

    And the flash will recycle faster for a MUCH longer time with a Quantum
    Battery than a set of AA Ni-MH.

    That's a fact, Mr. Quack.
    More flash power, yes.
    "...seems to suggest..."

    is that the same as

    "...loads of facts?"

    And BTW I never used the word "all."

    And neither did George Kirby.

    That's a fact, Mr. Quack.
    Sorry.

    YOU are incorrect, Mr. Quack.

    See above.
    Wrong again, Mr. Quack.

    See above.
    I've never had that happen and never have seen it happen to anyone else
    while using a Quantum battery.

    That's a fact, Mr. Quack.
    I've never had that happen and never have seen it happen to anyone else
    while using a Quantum battery.

    That's a fact, Mr. Quack.
    Can you really insult someone named Mr. Quack?
    Well, if you need to shoot on full power and need a recycle time faster than
    six seconds... I would suggest switching to a Quantum Battery.
    I've never had that happen and never have seen it happen to anyone else.

    And just because your flash recycles in a second doesn't mean you have to
    shoot every second.

    That's a fact, Mr. Quack.
    "...several sets... much more handy..."

    Really???

    The first job I ever used a Quantum Battery on I normally would have had a
    pocket full of batteries like you.

    But I never slowed down or stopped to change batteries.

    I never even broke a sweat.

    When the job was over I realized the Quantum Battery was a major advancement
    for photographers who needed to shoot uninterrupted over a long period.

    You didn't have to shoot on AUTO to get the recycle time you needed anymore.

    You could shoot on manual, get smaller f-stops, and better pictures.

    And it didn't look like you were carrying two pounds of rocks in each pocket
    of your tux.
    "...more people..."

    Is that a fact, Mr. Quack?
    You don't think that what's reasonable to you has to be reasonable to
    everyone else, do you?

    Thousands upon thousands of photographers power their flashes with Quantum
    Batteries.

    Are they unreasonable?

    Or have they found something that makes their lives and photographs better?
    Well, if you're gonna call Quantum Batteries "overkill" you should (as you
    wanted me to do) explain all the deficiencies of using AA batteries.

    Namely pockets filled with batteries.

    Dying at the worst possible time (don't they always).

    Possibly inserting them incorrectly into the flash at the worst possible
    time.

    Having a defective battery which you don't know about because you bought the
    most "reasonable" (read cheap) charger you could find.

    I'll let you go into detail about all the other drawbacks of AA batteries.

    How many extra batteries do you take to a job BTW, Mr. Quack?

    How many times do you stop shooting to change batteries, Mr. Quack?
    Extra disadvantages?

    Like minimal grain or minimal noise?
    Selling bigger prints along with smaller prints is more profitable than
    selling smaller prints alone.

    Or are you not in the business to make money, Mr. Quack?

    Have fun and make as much money as you can.

    Then go buy a Quantum Battery and leave your AA rechargable batteries for
    your flashlights and remote controlled cars.

    ;-P

    Dan Sullivan
     
    Dan Sullivan, Jan 3, 2004
    #6
  7. Dan Sullivan

    Dan Sullivan Guest

    If a photographer needs to shoot in AUTO with AA batteries to get the
    recycle time he needs he could shoot with a Quantum Battery on manual at a
    smaller f stop at the same distance and get the same recycle time.

    I'm not referring to the first 50 flashes.

    I'm referring to 200 manual flashes without changing batteries.

    Is the flash putting out more light for a proper exposure at f 11 at ten
    feet or f 5.6 at ten feet?
    Shooting with the flash on manual as opposed to AUTO increases the flash
    output.
    How 'bout the Battery 1 at 200 manual flashes?
    It's painfully obvious you are trying not to understand what I'm saying.
    Only a moron would do that.

    How many times have you done it?

    How many times have you watched other people do it without telling them
    they're gonna fry their flash?
    Sorry.

    I'm not gonna do that.
    Yes, that's exactly why I won't fry my strobes.

    Again, as I said, I have never seen that happen nor have I seen that happen
    to anyone else.

    I'm not gonna disagree with you that there are morons who would try such a
    thing.

    But I haven't done it nor have I seen anyone else do it with a Quantum
    Battery.

    Why am I an "idiot" or "clueless" for not admitting I've seen something that
    I haven't seen?

    Dan
     
    Dan Sullivan, Jan 4, 2004
    #7
  8. Already did.
    Obviously you already failed to see.
    This is pure rubbish. The max output of a given flash
    cannot be changed by means of a special battery or
    selecting a certain operating mode. The most common
    means of rating flash power output is the guide number,
    which does not change with batteries or operating modes.

    A Metz 45CTx will always have a guide number of
    45 (meters), no matter which battery you use.

    Say you choose f=11 to shoot, then the flash will
    reach approximately 4 meters (100 ISO), no matter
    if you use the telecomputer (thyristor) setting
    for f=11 or manual mode at full power. And you can
    hook Quantum Turbos as many as you like, the flash
    will not grow more powerful.
    No. Wrong. f=11 at 4 meters is as good as it gets.
    Switching to manual mode doesn't extend that reach
    in any way. Switching to ISO 50 for example will do
    nothing but reducing the flash range down to
    approximately 2,8 meters. Manual mode on the flash
    doesn't help this.
    I don't know about the exact capacity of the batteries
    in the Quantum Turbos, (Quantum doesn't state that
    on their website, and I'm sure they know why) but
    Quantum says they are NiMH, and judging from the size
    of the Turbo Compact (mounted under the camera, the
    one you referred to) there can't be much bigger than
    AA cells in it. Probably the Turbo C is even lower in
    capacity than you would run with a set of 2000 mAh
    NiMH AA cells.

    It is obvious that you have not even near a clue
    of what you are talking about.
    No. No way. The guide number does not change with
    the use of a different battery.
    Agreed. Now that we know thanks to another poster
    that the capacity of the Quantum Turbo is indeed
    even lower than that of a set of 2000 mAh NiMH cells.
    You probably never have used flashes in professional
    environments. I have fried several in my life.
    Scientific documentation, we fried them one after
    the other.
    No, that is stupid. Read your manual (if you happen to
    have a Quantum at all and are not just babbling about it).
    Or read the manual for the Metz 45 series flashguns.
    Metz clearly states that in order to prevent thermal
    overload you have to wait 30 seconds between each full
    power flash in continuous operation or you can fire ten
    flashes at max power and then have to wait four minutes
    for the unit to cool down.
    Right. It is a fact that you have seen little of
    the world of professional photography that you are
    babbling about.
    No, in that case I would use a different flash, one that
    copes with the thermal load.
    Yes, we already know you are ill informed.
    You don't have to repeat the same sentence
    all over again.
    Really. Been there, done that.
    Actually I carry two sets, and most of the times
    I never need the second set.
    Neither do I.
    Probably you just had a bad choice of batteries and
    chargers before that. You simply switched from one
    ill informed state to another.
    This is stupid again. If I need f=11 at 4 meters distance,
    using Auto-11 wouldn't change a microsecond in recycle time
    in comparison to full power manual mode.
    Im sorry, but you are a clueless idiot.
    Funny, I rarely see any. And most of the times those
    that I do see are rather clueless.

    And yes, I am in a big city, I go to many press events
    and I know a large number of fellow professional
    photographers.
    Since we now know about the low capacity of the Quantums,
    there aren't any.
    Since they will outlast the Quantum....
    If that is reasonable to you, I am sorry for you.
    A good microprocessor driven charger is 80% of what
    you can do with your batteries.
    Sorry to disappoint you, but in the light of the
    Quantum capacity now - there aren't any.
    Usually one extra set.
    Rarely, if at all. And replacing the battery cage
    on a Metz 45 is a matter of two seconds.
    I would always prefer a great image with atmosphere over
    a dull image with flat lighting. And I am getting paid
    well for that.
    Hm. Selling peanuts, that is. I charge a healthy day rate
    and don't need to make too much markup on prints. And
    great images will be sold in big prints also. Fine grain
    is not all that counts in a picture. If you fail to capture
    the atmosphere (which is very likely in your setup), you
    probably don't sell at all.
    I am making nice money, thank you.
    Why should I downgrade?
     
    Michael Quack, Jan 4, 2004
    #8
  9. So? 180 here with 2000 mAh NiMH cells.
    At a dramatically lower price compared to
    the Quantum. And looking at the specs
    on the website of B&H, they specify it
    for only 150 manual flashes.

    Clear advantage for the separate NiMH cells,
    and at a price advantage of 133 USD, you can
    probably do the math.
    That is irrelevant for the max output possible.
    It makes the flas fire full power, nothing but.
    If your subject is at the very end of the maximum
    range for a given f-stop, the flash will fire
    full power just the same, there will be no difference
    between manual and auto mode.
    Look up the specs at the B&H website, blunt lie.
    It states clearly only 150.
    Then what do you need the Quantum for?

    Because you obviously don't even know the basics of flash.
     
    Michael Quack, Jan 4, 2004
    #9
  10. Dan Sullivan

    Dan Sullivan Guest

    B&H state the full power manual capacity of the Quantum Battery 1+ with a
    Vivitar 283 as 250+.

    http://tinyurl.com/37vdq

    As does the Quantum website.

    http://www.qtm.com/battery/qb1p_main.html
    I can do math and R-E-A-D, too!

    Why are the capacities different than what you claim them to be?
    The correct answer to that question, as any photographer knows, is YES!
    As opposed to LESS THAN full power when the flash is shot on AUTO other than
    when the subject being at the limit of the range..

    If you didn't snip my words you'd see that's what I was referring to.
    Go back to my posts before you snipped my words.

    You'll see what I'm talking about.
    From the B&H website re; QB1+, "250+ full power manual shots, and 1000+
    automatic shots per charge."

    Clearly you're attempting to win this discussion by falsifying the facts.

    How appropriate it is that your name is Mr. Quack.
    To give me a fast recycle time with a huge number of flashes!!

    Not to melt my equipment by doing something that Quantum and the
    manufacturer of my strobes say NOT TO DO!!!!
    How interesting that you "snip" all thru my post to make yourself "appear"
    to answer accurately/truthfully.

    Why am I not surprised?

    Dan
     
    Dan Sullivan, Jan 4, 2004
    #10
  11. Aaah, changing horses? What about the Quantum being mounted
    on the bottom of the camera as you originally referred to?
    Mustn't that be Mfr Catalog # QB1C / B&H Catalog # QUQB1C?
    And look at it, 150 pops.
    Okay. When do you start, then?
    And it has nothing to do with the max power output
    possible, as any nut knows. Except for you, that is.
    That is trivial, yes, but still doesn't lead to your
    ridiculous statement of increased max power. The flash
    guide number remains unchanged. And if I want a smaller
    aperture I can still dial in a higher f-stop in
    flash auto mode, I don't need to run it in manual mode
    at all.
    Which means that you don't master the operation of
    your flash and obviously have a big misunderstanding
    about what flash power ratings are.
    Now look. You said you can read and you said you can
    do the math. Doesn't it occur to you that "battery 1"
    and "battery 1+" (*PLUS*) that you are now switching
    to are two completely different items? Are you really
    that blunt?
    Vice versa, you are even changing battery model
    to help your ridiculous position.

    You are really a joke.
     
    Michael Quack, Jan 4, 2004
    #11
  12. Dan Sullivan

    Dan Sullivan Guest

    The Turbo Z capacity is 300 full power manual flashes with a Vivitar 283.

    The Turbo Compact capacity is 400 full power manual flashes with a 283.

    The Turbo capacity is 450 full power manual flashes with a 283.

    The Turbo 2x2 capacity is 900 full power manual flashes with a 283.

    All of this information is stated quite clearly on the Quantum website.

    http://www.qtm.com

    Capacities with handle mount flashes are also listed.

    Have fun, Dan Sullivan
     
    Dan Sullivan, Jan 4, 2004
    #12
  13. (...snip...)

    Okay, you are a nut, I give in. Battery capacities are
    rated in Ah, not in flashes.

    So: Which cells at which capacity are built into
    the Quantum devices, nuthead?
     
    Michael Quack, Jan 4, 2004
    #13
  14. Dan Sullivan

    Dan Sullivan Guest

    In the discussion you mentioned using straps.

    And to your statement I posted that some Quantum batteries mount to the
    bottom of the camera.

    And I listed the Bantam, the Battery 1C, and the Turbo Compact.
    No.

    As I said I listed all the batteries that mount on the bottom of the camera.

    And the Turbo Compact is listed at 400 full power manual flashes with a
    Vivitar 283.

    Why didn't you quote the specs for the Turbo Compact?

    HERE YOU GO AGAIN!!!

    Falsifying the facts!

    Please show me where I said a Quantum battery will increase the maximum
    power of a flash!

    I never said that.

    I simply said "Shooting with the flash in manual mode will give the
    photographer more flash power and a smaller f-stop."
    You snipping my words means I didn't master the operation of my flash?
    The original battery was called the Quantum Battery.

    Then it was improved and renamed the Quantum Battery 1.

    Then years ago that was improved and renamed the Quantum Battery 1+.

    All are either clipped to the bely or used with a strap.

    The Quantum Battery 1C is a completely different product that mounts under
    the camera.

    I had written, "How 'bout the Battery 1 at 200 manual flashes?"

    (it's actually rated at more than 250)

    And you wrote back "look up the specs on the B&H website, blunt lie. It
    states clearly only 150."

    Obviously I wasn't referring to the Battery 1C.

    Dan
     
    Dan Sullivan, Jan 4, 2004
    #14
  15. Dan Sullivan

    Dan Sullivan Guest

    How many quacks are in a duck?

    Dan
     
    Dan Sullivan, Jan 4, 2004
    #15
  16. (...)

    I give up. You are too smart for me.
    I am dumb enough not to pay the extra 130 plus
    dollars for extra weight without extra use.
     
    Michael Quack, Jan 4, 2004
    #16
  17. Dan Sullivan

    Dan Sullivan Guest

    <<<snip>>>

    As I said two days ago "If what I recommend isn't for you... fine."

    Dan
     
    Dan Sullivan, Jan 4, 2004
    #17
    1. Advertisements

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.