What VirtualDub's filters do people use when capture from VCR?

Discussion in 'Amateur Video Production' started by Leonid Makarovsky, Feb 15, 2004.

  1. Subject says it all. What filters in VirtualDub would anyone recommend
    to denoise during post processing (not during capture).

    --Leonid
     
    Leonid Makarovsky, Feb 15, 2004
    #1
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  2. Leonid Makarovsky

    erratic Guest

    I use Avisynth now, but this used to be my VirtualDub noise reduction
    filter chain:

    1. deinterlace (mode: unfold) (internal filter)
    2. smart smoother hiq
    http://neuron2.net/hiq/smoothhiq.html
    3. Jim Casaburi's temporal cleaner
    http://home.earthlink.net/~casaburi/download/#temporalcleaner
    http://home.earthlink.net/~casaburi/download/tclean05.zip
    4. deinterlace (mode: fold) (internal filter)

    #1 doesn't deinterlace the video (it shouldn't be deinterlaced!)
    but separates the fields, which improves noise reduction.
    #2 is a spatial cleaner and #3 is a temporal cleaner. The default
    settings are pretty good for both VHS and TV captures. If you want
    to fine tune the filters, read the help files.
    #4 folds the fields (which were unfolded in #1) back together.

    Of course, if your source video is non-interlaced you can omit filters
    #1 and #4.
     
    erratic, Feb 15, 2004
    #2
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  3. Thanks. I'll try that.

    --Leonid
     
    Leonid Makarovsky, Feb 15, 2004
    #3
  4. Leonid Makarovsky

    codecpage Guest

    1) VHS filter. I only use it to shift color 1..2 lines up (necessary
    with any analog VCR) and turn all other options off.
    2) Chroma Noise Reduction. May not be always necessary with SVHS or
    Hi8, but with lesser formats it definitely is. Eliminates color
    flicker.
    3) Temporal Smoother at settings 4...7. Almost any analog source
    profits from it. Much cleaner pictures with no loss of sharpness. Also
    reduces necessary bitrates for MPEG encoding. Use 4..5 with Croma
    Noise reduction or 5..7 without.
    If you do frameserving with this, delaying audio by about 100 ms will
    be necessary.
    4) General Convolution filter can be used for horizontal crispening as
    long as picture noise allows. This somewhat compensates for the
    frequency response of the VCR. More about this on my page (DVD
    section). Vertically, the tape device can't steal detail anyway, so
    additional sharpening (Xsharpen or so) is only necessary if the source
    was already blurry. The sharpening filters may work better at the
    beginning or at the end of the filter chain, depending on the source.

    Cheers


    http://www.codecpage.com
     
    codecpage, Feb 15, 2004
    #4
  5. : 3) Temporal Smoother at settings 4...7. Almost any analog source
    : profits from it. Much cleaner pictures with no loss of sharpness. Also
    : reduces necessary bitrates for MPEG encoding. Use 4..5 with Croma
    : Noise reduction or 5..7 without.
    : If you do frameserving with this, delaying audio by about 100 ms will
    : be necessary.

    I frameserve to feed TMPGenc. Do I need to delay audio? Why?

    --Leonid
     
    Leonid Makarovsky, Feb 15, 2004
    #5
  6. Leonid Makarovsky

    coolmercy Guest

    The filter chain 'erratic' mentioned works very well but I believe I
    get slightly better results by adding the flaXen VHS and the chroma
    noise reduction filters right after the deinterlace (mode: unfold)
    (internal filter) and then the other filter methods.

    For settings of the VHS and chroma noise reduction I suggest you visit
    this page and check the DVD section:
    http://www.codecpage.com/

    Peter van der Sluis
    Pijnacker, The Netherlands
    mailto:[email protected]
    change 66 for 55
    change dot for .
     
    coolmercy, Feb 15, 2004
    #6
  7. : 1. deinterlace (mode: unfold) (internal filter)
    : 2. smart smoother hiq
    : http://neuron2.net/hiq/smoothhiq.html
    : 3. Jim Casaburi's temporal cleaner
    : http://home.earthlink.net/~casaburi/download/#temporalcleaner
    : http://home.earthlink.net/~casaburi/download/tclean05.zip
    : 4. deinterlace (mode: fold) (internal filter)

    I just tried it and watched results in VD. It gave kinda like artificial colors. Is it supposed to be like that?

    What I'm trying to remove are those noisy blue artifacts that are produced by
    VHS. Very tiny lines.
     
    Leonid Makarovsky, Feb 15, 2004
    #7
  8. : get slightly better results by adding the flaXen VHS and the chroma
    : noise reduction filters right after the deinterlace (mode: unfold)
    : (internal filter) and then the other filter methods.

    Where do I find those filters? They weren't there in VD list of filters.

    --Leonid
     
    Leonid Makarovsky, Feb 15, 2004
    #8
  9. Leonid Makarovsky

    codecpage Guest

    This only applies to Temporal Smoother or other filters that average
    several frames. VirtualDub warns that the Filter delays the video,
    just when you start the frameserver. Indeed, 3 additional frames are
    generated at start (containing anything that was at the output window
    at start time) with Temporal Smoother at 5 or 6.
    It's hard to hear, but it should be 120 ms delay for that with PAL
    video or roughly 100 ms with NTSC.
    The 3 extra frames can be cut with the MPEG encoder or the DVD author,
    whatever has an option for that.

    Cheers


    http://www.codecpage.com
     
    codecpage, Feb 15, 2004
    #9
  10. Leonid Makarovsky

    Toshi1873 Guest

    Which VHS filter? (latest copy of VDub doesn't have one titled that?)
    vxVHS maybe? (http://flaxen.dynip.com/vdf/fxvhs/)


    What sort of FPS are you getting (and what sort of system)?
     
    Toshi1873, Feb 16, 2004
    #10
  11. Leonid Makarovsky

    Bariloche Guest

    Bariloche, Feb 16, 2004
    #11
  12. Leonid Makarovsky

    coolmercy Guest

    Didn't add the links, I'm sorry...
    http://neuron2.net/index.html

    Peter van der Sluis
    Pijnacker, The Netherlands
    mailto:[email protected]
    change 66 for 55
    change dot for .
     
    coolmercy, Feb 16, 2004
    #12
  13. Leonid Makarovsky

    codecpage Guest

    It's the one, commonly known as "VHS".
    I said I only use it for chroma shifting. For other tasks it's too
    slow and also doesn't do what I want. I use a 3 GHz P4 CPU.

    Cheers


    http://www.codecpage.com
     
    codecpage, Feb 16, 2004
    #13
  14. Leonid Makarovsky

    erratic Guest

    No, it's not supposed to be like that, of course. The filters worked
    well enough for me at the time. They stabilized the flickering PAL VHS
    colors I was getting, especially noticeable in the bright colors (bright
    red or blue). I used them for TV captures as well and I was happy with
    the results. I didn't bother to experiment further.

    The only question I asked myself was: should I put the spatial cleaner
    before the temporal cleaner or vice versa? Well, I tested both, and with
    the spatial cleaner before the temporal cleaner the resulting MJPEG
    files were a little smaller, so I assumed more noise had been removed
    that way.
     
    erratic, Feb 16, 2004
    #14
  15. Leonid Makarovsky

    Will Dormann Guest


    There are some good suggestions in yesterday's thread entitled "What
    VirtualDub's filters do people use when capture from VCR?"


    -WD
     
    Will Dormann, Feb 16, 2004
    #15
  16. :> Subject says it all. What filters in VirtualDub would anyone recommend
    :> to denoise during post processing (not during capture).
    : There are some good suggestions in yesterday's thread entitled "What
    : VirtualDub's filters do people use when capture from VCR?"

    Yeah, and I believe we're still in this thread. :)

    --Leonid
     
    Leonid Makarovsky, Feb 17, 2004
    #16
  17. Leonid Makarovsky

    Bariloche Guest

    Hope so. I dont wanna get lost in cyberspace :)
     
    Bariloche, Feb 17, 2004
    #17
  18. Leonid Makarovsky

    Will Dormann Guest


    Bleh! I knew I replied to the wrong thread!!
    (as I wait for my post to appear in the thread subject "Noise Reduction"
    on 2/16/2004)


    -WD
     
    Will Dormann, Feb 20, 2004
    #18
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