What's your favorite all-purpose lens?

Discussion in '35mm Cameras' started by dickr2, Nov 29, 2010.

  1. dickr2

    Eric Stevens Guest

    .... and its a double layer DVD as well. As far as I am concerned it is
    your turn to read it.



    Eric Stevens
     
    Eric Stevens, Dec 9, 2010
    #41
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  2. dickr2

    Walter Banks Guest

    In the late 60's there were various solutions that would make
    1200 BPI mag tape magnetization visible. I spent an afternoon
    one time getting a few bytes of data from around a tape break
    using this stuff and a magnifying glass.

    The data densities of these tapes were greater to that used on
    the early 5.25" floppies. The current round of floppy disk drive
    software does some impressive data recovery. A couple years ago
    I read all of our backups on 3 1/4 inch floppies and had 3 hard
    failures in several hundred disks. Even those disks had lost
    only a few bytes of data.

    I would not be surprised that "most" of the data could be
    recovered from one of the early low density single sided
    5.25 inch floppies after careful reassemble with the right
    tools. It would take a lot of work and post processing and
    would be a lot more complicated than taping it back together.




    Walter..
     
    Walter Banks, Dec 9, 2010
    #42
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  3. dickr2

    Robert Coe Guest

    : On 2010-12-07 20:09:14 -0800, David Nebenzahl <> said:
    :
    : > On 12/7/2010 7:43 PM Savageduck spake thus:
    : >
    : >> Bill, you need to slow down and read. On this one I was on your side. I
    : >> was trying to say that we had been through this dance before and you
    : >> had been vindicated that time. You certainly did retract your original
    : >> claim in your own inimitable way, and you were shown to be mostly
    : >> correct in what you were trying to tell us. However you still don't
    : >> actually read what has been given to you to support your claim. If you
    : >> had read and understood the article in the link I provided, you will
    : >> learn that it was not "a policeman in the Philippines" who managed the
    : >> fix.
    : >
    : > So tell us, o brutal mallard: do you actually believe these claims (by
    : > Forensic Files, not by Bill Graham) that cut-up floppy disks could
    : > actually be pieced back together and read? (They claimed, I think,
    : > something like a 85% recovery of data.)
    : >
    : > I don't.
    : >
    : > (This is apart from the whole CD/floppy confusion thing, and Graham's
    : > reading comprehension problems.)
    :
    : I too was a solid doubter, and I still doubt it could be repeated.
    : Since Bill first went off on the CD/DVD track and only came back to the
    : cut up floppy much later once it was demonstrated his memory was not
    : too accurate. I am not sure why I am sticking up for Bill at this stage
    : considering his high levels of confusion, which he still demonstrates
    : from time to time.
    :
    : However all that said, the case was real enough, and even after 25
    : years in Law enforcement, 20 of which were spent as an investigator, I
    : had not known of this case or the cut up 5.25" floppy disk data
    : recovery. I expressed as much back in 2009. When the subject of the
    : case was identified it was simple enough to verify the facts of the
    : case. Bill is still a little light on details, and I am sure "Forensic
    : Files" made some enhancements to the story for entertainment production
    : values.
    :
    : ...and that was not "Forensic Files" claiming the 85% data recovery, it
    : was Jim Christy, who was the Chief of the Air Force Office of Special
    : investigations (OSI) Computer Crime Investigations Unit, and was the
    : director of the Defense Cyber Crime Institute & Director of Operations
    : of the Defense Computer Forensics Laboratory at the time of this
    : investigation. As you can see he does not exactly meet Bill and
    : "Forensic Files" description of "a policeman in the Philippines".
    :
    : However, the fact remains, Julie Snodgrass was murdered in a murder for
    : hire plot by her husband Joe Snodgrass. Sufficient data was recovered
    : from the cut floppies to establish his motive, and secure a conviction
    : for murder. Former Sgt. Snodgrass is currently serving a life term at
    : Fort Leavenworth.
    :
    : I have strong doubts that this could be repeated with a successful
    : outcome, and I was surprised as hell when it worked this once.

    Two points that may or may not be relevant to this discussion:

    1) The data density of a DVD is more than three orders of magnitude greater
    than that of a 5.25-inch floppy. The densest floppy was less than a megabyte,
    and a DVD holds about 5 gigabytes. And the floppy was considerably larger;
    remember that capacity goes up with the square of the radius.

    2) The quickest and surest way to destroy data on a CD or DVD is not to cut
    it up, but to scrape off the label.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Dec 9, 2010
    #43
  4. dickr2

    Robert Coe Guest

    :
    :
    : Savageduck wrote:
    :
    : > However all that said, the case was real enough, and even
    : > after 25 years in Law enforcement, 20 of which were spent
    : > as an investigator, I had not known of this case or the cut
    : > up 5.25" floppy disk data recovery. I expressed as much back
    : > in 2009. When the subject of the case was identified it was
    : > simple enough to verify the facts of the case.
    : >
    : > ...and that was not "Forensic Files" claiming the 85% data
    : > recovery, it was Jim Christy, who was the Chief of the Air
    : > Force Office of Special investigations (OSI) Computer Crime
    : > Investigations Unit, and was the director of the Defense Cyber
    : > Crime Institute & Director of Operations of the Defense
    : > Computer Forensics Laboratory at the time of this investigation.
    :
    : In the late 60's there were various solutions that would make
    : 1200 BPI mag tape magnetization visible. I spent an afternoon
    : one time getting a few bytes of data from around a tape break
    : using this stuff and a magnifying glass.

    We had a device like that at a place I once worked; we used it to look for bad
    spots on the magnetic tapes used on our Univac 1105 computer. But the tape
    density was 128 bpi, not 1200. If you actually read 1200 bpi tape, that was
    quite a feat.

    Rich A would love the fact that most of the magnetic tape we used was metal,
    not mylar. When we found a bad spot, we had a special punch that would put one
    or more holes through the tape, and that would warn the read heads of the bad
    spot.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Dec 9, 2010
    #44
  5. dickr2

    Robert Coe Guest

    On 10-12-08 4:10 , Eric Stevens wrote:
    :
    : > The same applies to CDs if they are not too badly damaged. DVDs would
    : > pose a real challenge and as for Blue Ray ....
    :
    : I'll send you this CD for you to get data from:
    :
    : http://gallery.photo.net/photo/12063310-lg.jpg
    :
    : (10 seconds in microwave - 5 seconds is probably enough, however).

    Bully! I'm sure that's exactly how Eric planned to spend his retirement. ;^)

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Dec 9, 2010
    #45
  6. dickr2

    Robert Coe Guest

    : On 2010-12-08 19:06:19 -0800, John McWilliams <> said:
    :
    : > On 12/8/10 PDT 6:29 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
    : >> On Wed, 08 Dec 2010 18:02:14 -0500, Alan Browne
    : >>
    : >>> On 10-12-08 4:10 , Eric Stevens wrote:
    : >>>
    : >>>> The same applies to CDs if they are not too badly damaged. DVDs would
    : >
    : >>>> pose a real challenge and as for Blue Ray ....
    : >>>
    : >>> I'll send you this CD for you to get data from:
    : >>>
    : >>> http://gallery.photo.net/photo/12063310-lg.jpg
    : >>>
    : >>> (10 seconds in microwave - 5 seconds is probably enough, however).
    : >>
    : >> I was actually talking about objects which had been cut up.
    : >>
    : >> Your example would pose a real challenge but it might just be possible
    : >> to read parts of it. It would have to be very valuable information to
    : >> be worth the effort.
    : >
    : > It'd be a snap: Just use a time machine to go back before it got torched. ...
    : >
    : > I like Alan's method, and it could be easily combined with cutting up
    : > with a dull pair of tin snips. Shards first, fry later.
    : >
    : > A real question: The other night a DVD was allegedly made unreadable by
    : > a single deep scratch across the face of it. (Let's assume it was the
    : > data side.) Would that render it unreadable— in an ordinary DVD or
    : > computer drive, that is?
    :
    : That single deep scratch on the data side could render the DVD
    : unreadable in an ordinary drive. That said, if the scratch runs from
    : center to edge, careful polishing and buffing could resurrect it
    : provided the indexing portion of the disc, the MID (Media
    : Identification Code) data can be read.
    :
    : With a radial scratch, a portion of the disc might be readable until
    : the scratch is reached.
    :
    : Since data is burned in a spiral, radial scratches are most likely to
    : render the disc unreadable, hence when wiping the surface always wipe
    : from center to edge with multiple single strokes, not a circular wipe.

    But center-to-edge *is* "radial" (i.e., along the radius), isn't it? And if a
    radial scratch is more damaging (because it cuts across every track), then
    woiuldn't a circular wipe actually be better?

    That said, unless you're wiping the disk with sandpaper, it's hard to see how
    you could do enough damage to matter much.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Dec 9, 2010
    #46
  7. dickr2

    Robert Coe Guest

    : On 12/7/2010 6:29 PM Bill Graham spake thus:
    :
    : > David Nebenzahl wrote:
    : >
    : >> On 12/5/2010 11:10 PM Bill Graham spake thus:
    : >>
    : >>> There was an episode on "Forensic Files" where a guy cut up a
    : >>> floppy disc with a pair of pinking shears, and one of the cops
    : >>> was able to put it back together with a special extra thin scotch
    : >>> tape and actually read it into his computer. This is a true
    : >>> story, because I talked to the guy's son via email, and he
    : >>> verified it.
    : >>
    : >> Bullshit. Can't be done.
    : >>
    : >> Man, you *are* gullible.
    : >
    : > Bullshit. It can, and was done. Forensic files is based on true police
    : > episodes, and this took place on an army base in the Phillipeans. Its not
    : > that I'm gullable. It's that you are very stupid.
    :
    : "Phillipeans"? What's that?

    Obsequious words of praise to a guy named Phillip.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Dec 9, 2010
    #47
  8. dickr2

    Robert Coe Guest

    : David Nebenzahl wrote:
    : > On 12/7/2010 6:57 PM Bill Graham spake thus:
    : >
    : >> Lets face it. Digital storage is inherently rock solid. You can even
    : >> carve digital data into a piece of rock, so it is literally rock
    : >> solid. The old IBM cards were digital storage. There is no reason
    : >> why one couldn't encode a whole color photograph onto either IBM
    : >> cards, or pieces of rock (Other than the time it would take)
    : >
    : > Hey, that's a novel way to look at things: "Because one could, in
    : > theory, encode their JPEG (or even TIFF) photograph as a series of
    : > notches cut in rock, representing the binary encoding of the file,
    : > digital storage CAN TOO LAST FOREVER!". Proof positive.
    : >
    : > Only out of the mind of Bill Graham could such stuff come ...
    :
    : Seems perfectly logical to me. Every day, and in every way, you are
    : illustrating to me that you are a near-perfect asshole.

    A perfect asshole knows when to shut up.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Dec 9, 2010
    #48
  9. dickr2

    tony cooper Guest

    We learn something every day. I was completely unaware that there was
    a knife designed specifically for cutting bagels. There is, but it
    seems that is simply a serrated knife similar to the bread knife that
    I used just this morning to slice open a bagel. Shorter, though.

    We buy both bagels and English muffins (which are neither English nor
    muffins despite the labeling), but seldom have both in the house at
    the same time. The English muffins are sliced with the same bread
    knife as the bagels, but now I wonder if there is a designated English
    muffin knife.
     
    tony cooper, Dec 9, 2010
    #49
  10. dickr2

    Robert Coe Guest

    On 10-12-08 21:29 , Eric Stevens wrote:
    : > l challenge but it might just be possible
    : > to read parts of it. It would have to be very valuable information
    : > to be worth the effort.
    :
    : The next step after this is to shave off the label side (a bagel
    : knife is just right). That takes away the data layer and makes
    : metallic confetti/dust.
    :
    : http://gallery.photo.net/photo/12067033-lg.jpg
    :
    : I did forget to warn: microwaving CD's etc. produces a burnt plastic
    : smell. Good to really air out the microwave and kitchen after. Put
    : the CD on a paper napkin or wax paper first to avoid having to clean
    : the platter.

    And put a cup of water in to avoid damaging the microwave.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Dec 9, 2010
    #50
  11. Wiping a disc circumferentially (is that a word?) is indeed the surest
    way to impart a deadly scratch, because you're much more likely to
    render an entire sector or track unreadable.

    A radial scratch that extends across many tracks is actually less
    problematic, as the damage is limited to the width of the scratch which
    is pretty small.

    This part of the standard CD/DVD care advice that's invariably given out
    by manufacturers and such. Wipe across the disc, from the center outwards.


    --
    Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

    To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
    who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
    that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.
     
    David Nebenzahl, Dec 10, 2010
    #51
  12. Oh? I thought it was Tagalog.
    You probably didn't realize you were replying *to* Bill when you wrote
    that ...


    --
    Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

    To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
    who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
    that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.
     
    David Nebenzahl, Dec 10, 2010
    #52
  13. Yes, of course, because it's a sphincter.

    On another off-topic, rather meta: What's up with your newsreader (Forte
    Agent, I gather) using those cutesy quoting characters? Is that
    something you configured (using colons instead of ">")?

    Don't like it, serves no purpose and it makes attribution down-thread a
    pain in the ass.


    --
    Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

    To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
    who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
    that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.
     
    David Nebenzahl, Dec 10, 2010
    #53
  14. Yes, of course there is, but it's a French invention and hence titled:
    "couteau du muffe á l'Anglais".
     
    John McWilliams, Dec 10, 2010
    #54
  15. dickr2

    Robert Coe Guest

    : On 12/9/2010 3:42 PM Robert Coe spake thus:
    :
    : >
    : >> Seems perfectly logical to me. Every day, and in every way, you are
    : >> illustrating to me that you are a near-perfect asshole.
    : >
    : > A perfect asshole knows when to shut up.
    :
    : Yes, of course, because it's a sphincter.
    :
    : On another off-topic, rather meta: What's up with your newsreader (Forte
    : Agent, I gather) using those cutesy quoting characters? Is that
    : something you configured (using colons instead of ">")?

    Showing my age, I guess. In early Unix email systems, a capital "F" in column
    1 was assumed to be the beginning of a "From:" line and to represent the
    boundary between messages. If a line in the text of a message began with "F",
    a ">" was prepended to avoid confusion. This carried over into early
    newsreaders; and since ">" was already spoken for, another character, usually
    ":", was used as the quoting character. (Even then, any decent newsreader
    would let you use any quoting character you wanted.) I fell into that habit.

    : Don't like it, serves no purpose and it makes attribution down-thread a
    : pain in the ass.

    On the contrary, I find that it enables me to identify my comments more
    easily. Indeed, I suggest that attribution errors might be less common if
    different contributors used different quoting characters. In any case, Usenet
    has never placed restrictions on quoting characters, and any newsreader that
    relies on a specific character to function correctly is severely flawed.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Dec 10, 2010
    #55
  16. dickr2

    Robert Coe Guest

    : On 12/9/2010 6:27 PM Savageduck spake thus:
    :
    : > Filipino is the language of the Filipinos, who call call their country
    : > "Republika ng Pilipinas".
    :
    : Oh? I thought it was Tagalog.

    There are (or at least used to be) two recognized. Ilocano is the other. The
    two may be closely related; I'm not sure. Of course, Spanish and English are
    also widely spoken for historical reasons.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Dec 10, 2010
    #56
  17. dickr2

    Eric Stevens Guest

    Going through boxes and boxes of ancient family photographs and
    scanning them was quite sufficient fun for me.



    Eric Stevens
     
    Eric Stevens, Dec 10, 2010
    #57
  18. dickr2

    Eric Stevens Guest

    For ancient historical reasons there are a number of permitted quote
    marks and Agent allows the user to choose which one they wish to use.
    I use Agent also and have always had mine set to '>' which is now the
    accepted standard. But the others are still permissible.



    Eric Stevens
     
    Eric Stevens, Dec 10, 2010
    #58
  19. dickr2

    Ollie Clark Guest

    Hangonaminute. If you're going to be pedantic, be correctly pedantic.

    The sovereign state is called "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and
    Northern Ireland". Great Britain is the big island comprising most of
    England, Wales and Scotland but excluding NI and all the small islands.
    England, Scotland and Northern Ireland are countries. Wales is a
    principality or a country depending on who you ask.
    When I'm asked for my nationality, I usually put UK. But then I'm English.

    BTW the Welsh probably resent being called Welch. ;-)
    Holland is not the same thing as The Netherlands. The Netherlands is the
    country. North and South Holland are just two of it's twelve provinces.
    It's a very common mistake to make though.

    As for why they're called Dutch - history. What do Germans call
    themselves? It's probably more correct to call someone from The
    Netherlands a Netherlander.
    USians I thought. I struggle with what to call someone from the US.
    American is far too wide. USian sounds a bit weird. US Citizen is a bit
    official sounding.

    Cheers,

    Ollie
     
    Ollie Clark, Dec 10, 2010
    #59
  20. dickr2

    Robert Coe Guest

    On 2010-12-09 23:47:38 -0800, "Bill Graham" <> said:
    :
    : > Savageduck wrote:
    : >> On 2010-12-09 17:11:19 -0800, "Bill Graham" <> said:
    : >>
    : >>> Robert Coe wrote:
    : >>>> On Tue, 07 Dec 2010 19:43:48 -0800, David Nebenzahl
    : >>>>> On 12/7/2010 6:29 PM Bill Graham spake thus:
    : >>>>>
    : >>>>>> David Nebenzahl wrote:
    : >>>>>>
    : >>>>>>> On 12/5/2010 11:10 PM Bill Graham spake thus:
    : >>>>>>>
    : >>>>>>>> There was an episode on "Forensic Files" where a guy cut up a
    : >>>>>>>> floppy disc with a pair of pinking shears, and one of the cops
    : >>>>>>>> was able to put it back together with a special extra thin
    : >>>>>>>> scotch tape and actually read it into his computer. This is a
    : >>>>>>>> true story, because I talked to the guy's son via email, and he
    : >>>>>>>> verified it.
    : >>>>>>>
    : >>>>>>> Bullshit. Can't be done.
    : >>>>>>>
    : >>>>>>> Man, you *are* gullible.
    : >>>>>>
    : >>>>>> Bullshit. It can, and was done. Forensic files is based on true
    : >>>>>> police episodes, and this took place on an army base in the
    : >>>>>> Phillipeans. Its not that I'm gullable. It's that you are very
    : >>>>>> stupid.
    : >>>>>
    : >>>>> "Phillipeans"? What's that?
    : >>>>
    : >>>> Obsequious words of praise to a guy named Phillip.
    : >>>>
    : >>>> Bob
    : >>>
    : >>> "Philippines" was the spelling before they came up with "Filippines".
    : >>> Showing results for philippines. Search instead for filippines
    : >>
    : >> Filipinos are the nationals of The Philippines (named for Phil II of
    : >> Spain), there never was a "Filippines". The "F" in "Filipinos" is
    : >> derived from "Filipe".
    : >> Filipino is the language of the Filipinos, who call call their country
    : >> "Republika ng Pilipinas".
    : >>
    : >> I think you missed the point of Bill's misspelling, and Bob's
    : >> tongue-in-cheek comment regarding "Phillipeans".
    : >
    : > Well, not trying to start an argument (God knows I wouldn't do that) it
    : > still doesn't make sense to me. If the name of the country is,
    : > "Philippines", then it seems to me that its people should be called,
    : > "Philippenos". Substituting an F for the Ph when writing in the same
    : > language, (English) doesn't make sense to me. If the country is
    : > "England" why would you want to call its people "Inglishmen"?
    :
    : Actually, that one is more confusing than you might think.
    : Technically the country, part of which lends its name to the language
    : "English", is The United Kingdom and is also known as Great Britain. So
    : why are those folks from England, Scotland, Wales, & (Northern)
    : Ireland, not "Ukers". The Scots, Catholic Northern-Irish, and Welch
    : resent being called, or even though of as British, and they are
    : supposed to be a "United Kingdom". What's up with that Bill?
    :
    : Why would you call citizens of The Netherlands, also known as Holland, "Dutch"?
    :
    : Then the folks who come from Denmark are Danes, who speak Danish, ain't
    : that great, and the danish you eat doesn't come from Denmark.
    :
    : Isn't it amazing what some of us "UnifiedStaters" can come up with? :)

    Someone from California is called a Californian. Someone from Texas is called
    a Texan. Someone from Florida is called a Floridian. Etc.
    So what do you call someone from a) Massachusetts? b) Connecticut? c) Maine?

    Answers below.














    a) a Bay Stater.

    b) a Nutmegger.

    c) a Maniac. At least that's what we call them. ;^)

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Dec 10, 2010
    #60
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