Where do we draw the line?

Discussion in 'Photography' started by Dudley Hanks, Apr 14, 2008.

  1. Dudley Hanks

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    Dudley Hanks, Apr 14, 2008
    #1
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  2. Dudley Hanks

    Rob Morley Guest

    I'd take it in pretty close - lose most of the top half and nearly a
    quarter off each end. In visual terms that's about a tail's width to
    the left of her paws, right of her tail and above her ears. In numbers
    on the 574 x 431 original that's 141,194 to 452,431
    Nice doggy.
     
    Rob Morley, Apr 14, 2008
    #2
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  3. Dudley Hanks

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    Thanks, Rob. I'll crop it like you suggested and post it as well. I'm
    hoping to get a few other suggestions and then ask for a vote on the various
    croppings.

    As for the pic itself, is there anything else that needs attention? Too
    busy? Bad pose? Other?

    Take Care,
    Dudley
     
    Dudley Hanks, Apr 14, 2008
    #3
  4. Dudley Hanks

    Rob Morley Guest

    Great pose. A couple of bits of conifer around her ears are catching
    the light and are a bit distracting, but could easily be darkened.
     
    Rob Morley, Apr 14, 2008
    #4
  5. Dudley Hanks

    Ray Fischer Guest

    If you move the doggy away from the tree by a several feet then you
    can use a wide aperture to throw the tree out of focus and make it
    clear that the dog is the subject of the photo. I'd also get down
    lower to get rid of the ground.

    But YMMV.
     
    Ray Fischer, Apr 14, 2008
    #5
  6. Dudley Hanks

    tony cooper Guest

    Kinda depends on what you are trying to present. Are you presenting
    an image of Dima, or presenting a composition with Dima in the image?

    There's an interesting pyramid of the lighter fir (pun intended)
    behind Dima, but - in my opinion - it leads the eye away from the dog.
    It's like a big arrow directing the eye to go upwards.

    If your intent is present an image of Dima, then I'd crop it
    horizontally lose the trees. Put Dima's tags on a vertical line about
    a third of the way from the left of image.
    http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f244/cooper213/dima.jpg

    Overall, your composition is too balanced for my taste. Static.
     
    tony cooper, Apr 14, 2008
    #6
  7. Dudley Hanks

    Paul Furman Guest

    Yep, I did something very similar. Still ample proportion of woods in
    the background. I cropped to remove all the white sky but it could work
    with some sky on one side. I also agree about cloning out the bright
    spots in the background near her ear.

    Fantastic shot of obviously a great friend.
     
    Paul Furman, Apr 14, 2008
    #7
  8. Dudley Hanks

    Alienjones Guest

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    Dudley Hanks wrote:
    | Crop lines, that is...
    |
    | http://www.geocities.com/hanks.dudley/Dima.html
    |
    | Thanks,
    | Dudley
    |
    |

    Shepard dogs are a compelling image alone, with no distractions. I think
    a very tight crop of the dog's face, ears and possibly chest with all
    (any) background left in a a focus zone so blurred that nothing is
    distinguishable.

    Portrait orientation and it would portray (as portraits are supposed to
    do) the object of attention and not the distraction of a background that
    can be recognized. If you use a flash pointed vertically with a
    "Specular highlight" card on it, you will also add some life to the
    dog's eyes, not normally available under daylight conditions.

    Some of my portraits may help reinforce my suggestions:
    http://www.douglasjames.com.au/portfolio/Portraits/

    Take note of the copyright covering my images if you intend to take any
    of them without asking first ...and simply don't!

    - --

    from Douglas,
    If my PGP key is missing, the
    post is a forgery. Ignore it.
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    Alienjones, Apr 14, 2008
    #8
  9. Dudley Hanks

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    But, Dima isn't a typical shepherd; she is a guide dog, and she is dying of
    cancer. She has devoted her life to guiding me through a crazy world that
    cares little about the safety or convenience of blind persons, and she has
    done it gracefully, eagerly, and vivaciously. To capture her as a closely
    cropped shepehrd where her teeth would probably be the most noticeable
    characteristic, would convey the wrong image.

    Her doamain was the world, and she occupied a unique position halfway
    between the animal kingdom and the realm of human affairs. I want her
    picture to be a tribute, not just a portrait.
    I used two flashes for this shot, perhaps the image reduction obviates the
    twinkle in her eye, but I'm sure it will be visible in the final print, if I
    decide to mount this one on my wall.
    Unfortunately, I have enough trouble viewing my own images where I know what
    I've shot; viewing someone elses work, where I have no idea of what is in
    the frame, is all but impossible for me. But, thanks, anyway.
    Now, Douglas, is that really called for? Isn't the copyright notice on your
    site sufficient protection on its own?

    Besides, I don't at present derive any photographically generated income,
    and, if I did, only images I have shot myself would be worth anything,
    either to me or my customers. Moreover, given that I have only about 2%
    vision, wouldn't it be a bit obvious I've stolen someone else's work if I
    were to present a technically perfect photograph as part of my collection?

    Take Care,
    Dudley
     
    Dudley Hanks, Apr 14, 2008
    #9
  10. Dudley Hanks

    me Guest

    You might also consider a situation which triggers remembrance of your many
    times together.
     
    me, Apr 14, 2008
    #10
  11. Dudley Hanks

    Alienjones Guest

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    Dudley Hanks wrote:

    |
    | Now, Douglas, is that really called for? Isn't the copyright notice
    on your
    | site sufficient protection on its own?
    |
    | Besides, I don't at present derive any photographically generated income,
    | and, if I did, only images I have shot myself would be worth anything,
    | either to me or my customers. Moreover, given that I have only about 2%
    | vision, wouldn't it be a bit obvious I've stolen someone else's work if I
    | were to present a technically perfect photograph as part of my collection?
    |
    | Take Care,
    | Dudley
    |
    |

    Apparently Dudley People like some of those who offered you advise have
    no regard for the copyright or other people. One such person is Paul
    Furman who pretended to offer you advise on composition of your picture.

    He took some of my images, without my permission, illegally altered them
    without my consent and attempted to discredit my findings of an example
    of two different cameras, with thousands of dollars price difference not
    producing all that different a quality image with the altered images.

    Despite legal action being commenced today against his host, he figured
    he'd leave the evidence in place with just the index image removed. So
    yes... Reminding people reading this thread that my images are copyright
    and that I will pursue my intellectual property rights in protecting
    myself against such idiots is very timely.

    I don't for a single moment suggest you are in the same gutter as he is.
    The warning was timely for the other idiots inhabiting these photo
    groups who think nothing is illegal on Usenet.
    - --

    from Douglas,
    If my PGP key is missing, the
    post is a forgery. Ignore it.
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    Alienjones, Apr 14, 2008
    #11
  12. Dudley Hanks

    Frank ess Guest

    [ ... ]

    My quick selections are at:
    http://www.fototime.com/inv/E680732CA59D9AD

    The portrait-style seems nice, but trite; the "Tribute" includes some
    background that may be distracting to some; the only thing that really
    bothered me was the dark object behind the dog's right ear. I did a
    little non-meticulous cloning there; a better, more fastidious
    craftsman might make it even better.

    I didn't mind the tree pointing up and away from the dog. I see it as
    a not-so-subtle metaphor, something of a consoling apparition
    regarding the dog's and your circumstances.

    I hope you incorporate your dog's goodness into your inner landscape;
    she'll comfort you in your grief.

    Resp'y,
     
    Frank ess, Apr 14, 2008
    #12
  13. Dudley Hanks

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    Well, Douglas, I'm not sure how many times you "have commenced legal action
    today" against Paul, but I'm getting a bit tired of hearing that phrase.

    I've followed that thread, and I'm rather disappointed you are trying to use
    my thread to dredge it up again.

    If you decide to post articles expressing your views / opinions / findings
    on the internet, then you might want to be aware that not everyone will
    agree with you. Some people might even want to disprove your findings if
    they hold alternative opinions. It's the way the world works.

    If you wish to launch legal action against Paul and spend hundreds of
    thousands of dollars to soothe your ego, fine, it's up to you. But, be a
    man about it and leave it up to your lawyers.

    Take Care,
    Dudley
     
    Dudley Hanks, Apr 14, 2008
    #13
  14. Dudley Hanks

    tony cooper Guest

    This observation is why I posted my earlier comment about what Dudley
    is trying to do; provide an image of his dog, or provide a composition
    that includes an image of the dog. If you view it from the
    "composition that includes an image of the dog", then the symbolic
    arrow - formed by the trees - pointing to the heavens over a dog that
    is terminally ill becomes a vital part of the composition. If it's
    intended as an image of his dog, then I feel the trees become a
    distraction.
     
    tony cooper, Apr 14, 2008
    #14
  15. Dudley Hanks

    Frank ess Guest

    I guess you must have thought I didn't understand. That explains why
    you posted this comment.

    Done and done.
     
    Frank ess, Apr 14, 2008
    #15
  16. Dudley Hanks

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    Fair Dealing...

    illegally altered them

    Analyzed them...
    He had the audacity to disagree with you...
    Again? Shouldn't you wait for the last legal action you launched against
    his ISP to wrap up?
    A complete waste of time and bandwidth?
    No, my gutter is much colder...
    Sorry, couldn't think of anything humourous to end on...

    Take Care,
    Dudley
     
    Dudley Hanks, Apr 14, 2008
    #16
  17. Dudley Hanks

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    Thanks, Rob, I'll get my son to see if he can tone it down a bit. He's just
    learning how to use Photoshop, so he likes doing this kind of stuff. But,
    being a teenager, his attention span sometimes gets a bit short, so he
    doesn't always catch these things...

    Take Care,
    Dudley
     
    Dudley Hanks, Apr 14, 2008
    #17
  18. Dudley Hanks

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    Not coming from a portrait photography background, this is one thing I keep
    forgetting. I think to myself, "I want trees for a backdrop," so I position
    myself with the branches scraping my neck and get Dima to hit the ground in
    front of me. Then I sneek in front of her and snap the shot. I've got to
    alter this methodology and take a couple of steps to ensure sufficient room
    gets inserted.

    However, I'm shooting with a Canon Powershot A720, so depth-of-field is
    fairly deep, even at f/2.8; I'm not sure I'll be able to put enough
    distance in to get the effect I want. I may have to change locations
    entirely.

    get down
    I think I need to couple this suggestion with others I've received to crop
    tighter. Up till now, I've been simply content to get my subject in the
    frame, not too far away from my target zone.

    I'm getting more used to the way my camera captures and processes an area,
    so I can start paying more attention to getting closer and cropping out
    extrenuous areas such as the grassy area in front. Thanks for pointing that
    one out.

    I'm making a list of all the suggestions I receive, and I'll be reviewing it
    prior to each shoot in the future.

    This should help a lot.

    Take Care,
    Dudley
     
    Dudley Hanks, Apr 15, 2008
    #18
  19. Dudley Hanks

    Alienjones Guest

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    Dudley Hanks wrote:
    | |> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    |> Hash: SHA1
    |>
    |> Dudley Hanks wrote:
    |>
    |> |
    |> | Now, Douglas, is that really called for? Isn't the copyright notice
    |> on your
    |> | site sufficient protection on its own?
    |> |
    |> | Besides, I don't at present derive any photographically generated
    |> income,
    |> | and, if I did, only images I have shot myself would be worth anything,
    |> | either to me or my customers. Moreover, given that I have only
    about 2%
    |> | vision, wouldn't it be a bit obvious I've stolen someone else's
    work if
    |> I
    |> | were to present a technically perfect photograph as part of my
    |> collection?
    |> |
    |> | Take Care,
    |> | Dudley
    |> |
    |> |
    |>
    |> Apparently Dudley People like some of those who offered you advise have
    |> no regard for the copyright or other people. One such person is Paul
    |> Furman who pretended to offer you advise on composition of your picture.
    |>
    |> He took some of my images, without my permission,
    |
    | Fair Dealing...
    |
    | illegally altered them
    |
    | Analyzed them...
    |
    |> without my consent and attempted to discredit my findings of an example
    |> of two different cameras, with thousands of dollars price difference not
    |> producing all that different a quality image with the altered images.
    |
    | He had the audacity to disagree with you...
    |
    |> Despite legal action being commenced today against his host, he figured
    |
    | Again? Shouldn't you wait for the last legal action you launched against
    | his ISP to wrap up?
    |
    |> he'd leave the evidence in place with just the index image removed. So
    |> yes... Reminding people reading this thread that my images are copyright
    |> and that I will pursue my intellectual property rights in protecting
    |> myself against such idiots is very timely.
    |
    | A complete waste of time and bandwidth?
    |
    |> I don't for a single moment suggest you are in the same gutter as he is.
    |
    | No, my gutter is much colder...
    |
    |> The warning was timely for the other idiots inhabiting these photo
    |> groups who think nothing is illegal on Usenet.
    |
    | Sorry, couldn't think of anything humourous to end on...
    |
    | Take Care,
    | Dudley
    |
    |

    You're doing pretty well for a blind person if you can't see my
    portraits but you can see Furman's plagiarism of my photos.

    - --

    from Douglas,
    If my PGP key is missing, the
    post is a forgery. Ignore it.
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    Alienjones, Apr 15, 2008
    #19
  20. Dudley Hanks

    tony cooper Guest

    No, I really didn't give any thought to whether or not you understood.
    If anything, I assumed you did. We're just voicing some parallel
    thoughts along with some differences in reaction to the image. Nuffin
    wrong with that.
     
    tony cooper, Apr 15, 2008
    #20
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