Which low-price Digital Camcorder to buy?

Discussion in 'Video Cameras' started by tochiromifune, Nov 28, 2005.

  1. Depends on what you mean by a dual head - if you're using the analog output the
    OK (usually S-video, I think)

    Leaving the camera on is no problem as long as there is no tape.

    Personally, I use a dedicated DAC for the job.

    Have just moved into a new computer editing room, if anybody is interested you
    can see a pic on my site, follow the updated link.



    Stuart McKears, Nov 29, 2005
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  2. There are two separate disciplines in film making which can be loosely described
    as craft and content (some people use creative instead)

    Craft skills (camera, sound, lighting, etc, etc) should mean that technically
    the results are useable, clearly it's not possible to be 100% accurate at
    whatever level and re-shoots do occur due to technical problems. As in any
    profession, your pay level and title is really dependant on how few times you
    make mistakes.

    Content (mainly the directors vision) is another matter all together and is a
    subjective judgement. Re-shoots for content are very common.

    A film maker does both jobs so the difference between the amateur and the
    professional is that the former will probably only have one shot that is
    technically OK while the professional will have numerous choices. But, as my
    photography example tried to illustrate, a rank amateur has as much chance of
    getting the content wonderfully right in their 1 technically OK shot as any
    professional had in their 12 technically OK shots.



    Stuart McKears, Nov 29, 2005
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  3. tochiromifune

    G Hardy Guest

    And therein lies the problem. The OP is looking for a budget camcorder for
    filming a family member, and therefore it's fair to assume he doesn't know a
    great deal about what he's letting himself in for.

    In wades Tony with a ridiculous comment like "you need DV-in for analogue
    pass through" and we end up wasting lots of bandwidth trying to correct the
    statement for the sake of any other beginners that might read it.

    It's good to know there's a Sony DV-in without analogue-in. I'd be
    interested to see how he backtracks from this one...
    G Hardy, Nov 29, 2005
  4. tochiromifune

    Tony Morgan Guest

    In message <>, Stuart McKears
    Indeed. I recall in a TV interview (was it on Parkie or Jonathan Ross?)
    Martin Scorsese saying that it was the producers job to contain the
    budget, and the directors job to overrun the budget in the interests of
    I suspect, though, that in the advertising sector of the industry, a
    pretty tight reign is maintained on costs. A budget is agreed at the
    outset, and if it is overrun then it's the production company who have
    to bear the cost. The same is true of the training video marketplace. If
    the spend exceeds the revenue (aka the budget) then any production
    company will very soon go out of business. I don't know much about the
    film/video production business but I do about the web design/system
    business - and one of the things that have to be controlled is the
    "creative dimension". - especially with new graduates who leave
    college/uni with a total lack of understanding of the business side of
    their chosen industry.

    Anyway, we seem to be digressing from the thread issue of which
    low-price digital camcorder to buy :)
    Tony Morgan, Nov 29, 2005
  5. tochiromifune

    Tony Morgan Guest

    I believe that all *current* Sonys with DV-in provide analogue
    passthrough (to DV) - no doubt someone will correct me if it's not so.
    And my (nearly) four-year old TRV-DCR30 does.
    Tony Morgan, Nov 29, 2005
  6. tochiromifune

    Tony Morgan Guest

    Please DO READ what is said *in context*. You're beginning to emulate
    Jerry in taking things out of context. And by deliberately taking things
    out of context just to score points it is YOU who are using up bandwidth
    without reason.
    Tony Morgan, Nov 29, 2005
  7. heavily snipped only for brevity
    Actually, pro-rata budgets for main stream adverts are usually as high or higher
    than cinema films - it's still often the case that money is no barrier

    The current rate for a commercials DOP/Lighting cameraman is 739ukp per day, the
    directors rate is 714ukp.

    DOP/Lighting cameraman on a feature will probably be around 2Kukp a week

    Of course, length of contract does have some relevance but I've heard of
    commercials shoots lasting weeks

    As you rightly say this couldn't be farther from the OP's query so will shut up
    now :)



    Stuart McKears, Nov 29, 2005
  8. Tony,

    PMJI. Even if all Sonys with DV-in provide analogue passthrough, it is very
    unclear for a beginner to say so. In theory there could even be analogue-in
    (and passthrough) *without* DV-in.
    Lou van Wijhe, Nov 29, 2005
  9. tochiromifune

    Tony Morgan Guest

    Very true. Indeed with my TRV30, there was no mention of the facility in
    the manual, only a passing reference on a setting to either AV or DV in
    the condensed list of menu functionality. But constantly, while
    exploring the TRV30's functionality I would return from a shooting
    session thinking "wouldn't it be nice if it did this/that/theother".
    Then when playing around with the menu settings I would often discover
    that the camcorder did in fact have the functionality I was seeking.
    Analogue pass-through was one of those. And I discovered by setting to
    the AV option, with the tape in, analogue was recorded to the tape, but
    it didn't pass-through - but by running without a tape I could capture
    DV AVI from the analogue socket inputs. And at that time there seemed no
    mention anywhere on the 'net (nor in the manual) of what is now known as
    "analogue pass-through". And now that I've bought a (new) second-hand
    TVR80, it's described in the manual, and works with or without a tape
    once the right menu settings are used..
    I'd tend to argue the opposite point of view, based on careful
    consideration of the way camcorders (Sony's at least) seem to organise
    their signal path functionality in streams. This view seems to me to be
    supported by the way in which modern DSPs work, and their almost
    infinite configurability of IO.

    And one of my friends who has a Panasonic has discovered that he can get
    analogue pass-through, though there is no mention of it in his manual.
    This is perhaps the basis of my assumption that all current-model DV-in
    camcorders have the facility. It seems to me, BTW, that the current crop
    of miniDV camcorders all seem to have the same set of facilities, though
    in some instances they are configured and used in slightly different

    All of which reminds me that one of the IO ports on almost all Sonys,
    the optical port, is mentioned in passing in the manuals - but there
    seems no information on what goes in or out or it's functionality. The
    LANC port functionality, similarly, has little description on how it is
    used - though I have successfully been able to transfer video/sound from
    one camcorder to another using the LANC as a control. A friend has also
    used LANC control to transfer (analogue) video/sound from his camcorder
    to a top-end Sony VCR (which has a LANC 2.5mm socket). And (curiouser
    and curiouser) the VCR manual also fails to describe its use.
    Tony Morgan, Nov 29, 2005
  10. tochiromifune

    Gripper Guest

    Wow! Hold the presses! 'TM in admission of fallibility shock!"

    it's not a "point of view", it's his *theory*.
    now I've got a headache.
    Gripper, Nov 29, 2005
  11. tochiromifune

    Rob Hemmings Guest

    Which Canons' do you have? I just used an MV850i to convert
    an old VHS tape to DV using analogue pass-through. Interestingly
    it did a *much* better job than the Matrox RT.X100 when
    capturing the same composite signal. I'm a bit disappointed by that,
    but then again, I bought the RT.X100 to speed-up editing within
    Premiere Pro and it does that beautifully.
    Rob Hemmings, Dec 2, 2005
  12. tochiromifune

    G Hardy Guest

    The XL1 and the XM1. Both great cameras, except for their low-light ability.
    Much nicer colours than the Sony PD150 and PD170 we compared them with about
    a year ago.

    The analogue-in is no big deal - we don't do enough of it to warrant
    spending a fortune. A £30 USB2 dongle from Aldi is good enough for our
    G Hardy, Dec 5, 2005
  13. tochiromifune

    Dave R Guest

    What's the rendering quality like for slow-motion stuff with the X100? I
    reckon that Prem Pro on it's own is worse than my old setup of Prem6 +
    DV500, but it's a little difficult to prove now.
    Dave R, Dec 5, 2005
  14. tochiromifune

    Mal Franks Guest

    Can't see any way of getting analogue video into my DCR-HC22E (or the
    HC19E). The only video input is the DV-in. SVideo and composite are
    output only.

    Mal Franks, Jan 27, 2006
  15. tochiromifune

    Mal Franks Guest

    AFAIK neither the DCR-HC22E (which I have) or the DCR-HC19E have
    analogue inputs unfortunately to allow video to enter the camcorder to
    be passed-thru the DVI.

    The HC22E manual has a section on connecting it to a VCR but it seems to
    require that the VCR has an iLink/firewire connection (not seen any of
    them around in local electronics retailers).
    Mal Franks, Jan 27, 2006
  16. tochiromifune

    Mal Franks Guest

    AFAIK neither the DCR-HC22E (which I have) or the DCR-HC19E have
    analogue inputs unfortunately to allow video from a VCR to enter the
    camcorder to be passed-thru DV.

    The HC22E manual has a section on connecting it to a VCR but it seems to
    require that the VCR has an iLink/firewire connection (not seen any of
    them around in local electronics retailers).
    Mal Franks, Jan 27, 2006
  17. tochiromifune

    :::Jerry:::: Guest

    New account or computer Tony?.....
    :::Jerry::::, Jan 27, 2006
  18. I've my own server (and have had for six years). I operate the Zen
    domain as a relay and as a way of getting access through broadband
    without getting into the hassle of negotiating with BT.
    zipper-uppera, Jan 27, 2006
  19. tochiromifune

    :::Jerry:::: Guest

    I was eluding to the fact that you are showing up with different
    'user names', "ama terasu" and now "zipper-uppera"...
    :::Jerry::::, Jan 27, 2006
  20. tochiromifune

    Aidan Brick Guest

    Alluding, surely ?
    Aidan Brick, Jan 29, 2006
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