Which Nikon to pick? 80 or 200 ?

Discussion in 'Nikon' started by Billy, Jul 26, 2007.

  1. Billy

    Tony Polson Guest

    I have heard that too, but several previous dates were rumoured and
    nothing happened.
    Where did I suggest that they would?

    Pricing is more of an issue than specification, with Canon waiting to
    see whether Nikon's very competitive pricing policy will be
    maintained, but a few minor tweaks to the firmware would surely not be
    out of the question?
     
    Tony Polson, Jul 26, 2007
    #21
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  2. Aren't you putting the cart before the horse? The D80 is can be used with
    the vast majority of Nikkor lenses, if nothing else then at least in manual
    mode.

    There are only a handfull of lenses that definitely won't work and those are
    mostly rather special animals like the 1000 and 2000mm Reflex or really
    ancient lenses without even AI.

    If someone has/needs one of those then I suppose he should also be smart
    enough enough to explicitely check the compatibility chart. But flatout
    saying "incompatibility with older Nikkors" is quite exagerated unless you
    qualify what you mean by "older".

    jue
     
    Jürgen Exner, Jul 26, 2007
    #22
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  3. Billy

    frederick Guest

    Mostly shutter delay mode is fine for this.

    Or if you have a slew of older nikkors, or
    Sure - no argument re the old Nikkors, and the D200 is a nice camera
    with a few features over the D80. But $600 is the price of a good lens,
    (Perhaps a macro for "garden and flowers, interesting things" etc).
     
    frederick, Jul 26, 2007
    #23
  4. Billy

    Matt Clara Guest

    I don't believe any of the DSLRs utilize the old Nikon trick of closing the
    mirror first and then waiting a second (or 10, depending on how long you
    have the timer set for) before releasing the shutter. I could be wrong, but
    I'm quite sure the D70 didn't do this, and there is a huge difference
    between a D70 and D200 when it comes to macro work.
     
    Matt Clara, Jul 26, 2007
    #24
  5. For non-cpu lenses, 'manual mode' on a D80 means no lightmeter. It strikes
    me as awfully inconvenient to be forced to look at the back of your camera
    before each shot to evaluate/verify the exposure.
     
    Philip Homburg, Jul 26, 2007
    #25
  6. Billy

    frederick Guest

    They've still got it.
    D80 has only a 400 millisecond shutter release delay mode.
    D200 has that too! But D200 also has full MLU.
    Mirror Lock Up in D80 is only for sensor cleaning, like the D70.
    There's a few situations where full MLU would be an advantage over
    shutter release delay mode, but I know that the latter would be ideal to
    overcome the mirror slap at ~ 1/2 - 1/30th second exposures - commonly
    needed with macro in natural light, and not overcome very well by even
    quite good tripods.
     
    frederick, Jul 26, 2007
    #26
  7. Sure, sure.
    But AI was introduced in '77 and by '79 almost all Nikkors were AI. If you
    do have such a lens then you can add the chip and convert it to AI-P.
    AI-P was introduced in '88 and is fully compatible with the D80 including
    metering.

    In other words to find a lens that is truly incompatible or really requires
    manual metering (which as you said may be awfully inconvenient) we basically
    have to go back about 30 years(*).
    (*)excluding the usual oddities like mirror lenses, PC lenses, etc.

    Yes, I am sure there are lenses around which are older and I am sure many of
    them are in great shape and produce excellent photos. But the total number
    of those lenses available for purchase is certainly negligable.

    I'd say it is a pretty save bet (although not 100%) to say that a given
    Nikkor lens that is younger than ~15-20 years does meter on a D80 and if it
    is younger than ~28 years it can be converted to meter on a D80.
    Or in other words: if it's younger than ~30 years then your chances are
    pretty high that it is or can be made fully compatible with a D80.

    30 years is a pretty long time.....

    jue
     
    Jürgen Exner, Jul 26, 2007
    #27
  8. Billy

    Robert Brace Guest

    Matt:
    In the "mirror up" mode, first push brings the mirror up. You then have
    up to 30 seconds to fire the shutter on the second press, or after 30
    seconds it will fire unaided, or you can cancel the operation entirely. At
    least the D2 and D200 operate in this manner.
    Bob
     
    Robert Brace, Jul 26, 2007
    #28
  9. Billy

    Guest Guest

    that's true, but those rumours were basically hoping something would be
    announced on nikon's birthday and i forget what the reason was in june.
    the august rumour is based on a banner seen in a camera store in japan
    that says 'on sale in the fall' and a dpreview member whose previous
    rumours have been consistently correct.
    why else would they wait for nikon to announce?
    pricing could be adjusted slightly, but if either company does
    something unexpected, there isn't a whole lot the other can do.
     
    Guest, Jul 26, 2007
    #29
  10. I second the other guy. I bought a D80 (already had a D70s and D40) with the
    18-135 and I'm more than happy with it. I cannot imagine needing or wanting
    anything more than the D80 in the foreseeable future. The 18-135 I'll
    probably use mostly on my D40 though, and the 18-200 VR, or 18-70 and 70-300
    VR will be what I'll mostly use on the D80 depending on situation.

    Neil
     
    Neil Harrington, Jul 27, 2007
    #30
  11. Billy

    Billy Guest

    Yes, and the trend today is towards SD cards... it's getting hard to find CF
    cards in the stores around here... I bought another 1G card at too high a price
    because it was the only one in 3 stores I went to and I panicked!
     
    Billy, Jul 27, 2007
    #31
  12. Billy

    DoN. Nichols Guest

    [ ... ]
    Well ... not all lenses have room for the chip. Two AI lenses
    that I have don't. They are a 20mm f2.8, and the 16mm f3.5 fisheye.
    (Of course, the 16mm fisheye doesn't do much other than add a bit of
    interesting distortion compared to the 18mm end of the 18-70mm "kit"
    lens -- unless you have a full frame camera -- either real film or
    (eventually) a full-frame sensor.

    Also -- the fellow who does the conversions used to list my
    zoom (80-200mm IIRC) but then took it off the list before I could send
    mine in for the conversion. I suspect that it is mostly a matter of
    just being very difficult to fit the chip in there as well -- or perhaps
    a lack of a chip with the needed parameters.

    [ ... ]
    Well ... I'm not quite sure when the ones which I mentioned
    above were made. I would like to be able to use all three with
    metering. I can use them on my D70 if I am willing to take the time to
    also use a light meter -- or to "chimp" my way to a reasonable exposure.
    But since I usually have the camera set to "Auto-ISO", I have to turn
    that off when using a hand-held meter -- or take a quick shot to see
    what ISO the camera selects.

    I may be just very unlucky in having the only lenses which can't
    be converted, but I suspect that there are quite a few others.

    Enjoy,
    DoN.
     
    DoN. Nichols, Jul 27, 2007
    #32
  13. Billy

    Matt Clara Guest

    Jürgen, I believe you're correct, essentially, yet having used a D70 just as
    you say, and then moving to a D200, the ability to use your AI and AIs
    lenses with metering is worth a cool$100, if not more. In fact, with the
    ability to dial in focal length and f stop, these lenses become more useful
    than they ever have in conjunction with Nikon's speedlight system. For
    those who use these things, I think you're underestimating this ability.
     
    Matt Clara, Jul 27, 2007
    #33
  14. Billy

    Paul Furman Guest

    Oh yeah, I've got a new AI-P 45mm f/2.8 MF pancake with a chip (only
    such modern lens I'm aware of) that meters on a D70. People shouldn't
    confuse this with converting a pre-AI lens to AI, which will not meter.
    The 45 must be set to f/22 & the aperture set on the body, the old AI
    lenses let you use the aperture ring on a D200. But yes this is a valid
    point I didn't quite realize. And to be fair, lens changes with AI on a
    D200 require a few clicks in the menu. If the max aperture is the same,
    it'll work but to get the exif right it's a little more work. It does
    remember the max ap. for each focal length assuming you don't have
    repeating length lenses with different speeds.I guess chipped lenses
    meter on a D40 too? The chip simply tells the camera the focal length &
    max aperture.
     
    Paul Furman, Jul 27, 2007
    #34
  15. Billy

    Paul Furman Guest

    For super macro or telephoto with heavy lenses on a marginal tripod, the
    delay mode isn't much help. It takes quite a few seconds to stop quivering.
     
    Paul Furman, Jul 27, 2007
    #35
  16. It is a very nice concept. The only problem is that there are very few
    companies in the world that offer that service.

    If I have the choice between shipping all my non-cpu lenses to another
    continent to have them chipped or paying $600 extra for a better camera, then
    no doubt I'll take the camera.
     
    Philip Homburg, Jul 27, 2007
    #36
  17. And I would totally agree with you that that would be the right call in that
    situation.

    However, if you already have several(!) non-CPU lenses (which must be over
    20 years old!) then chances are you are so heavily invested in photography
    that you are not interested in a consumer-level D80 anyway. You would
    probably looking for a D2 or maybe a D200 at the lower end.

    Therefore I still don't agree with that missing support for non-AI lenses is
    an issue with the D80. There are just too few non-IA lenses out there which
    would be used by the typical D80 target group.

    jue
     
    Jürgen Exner, Jul 27, 2007
    #37
  18. Billy

    acl Guest


    On the other hand, one may have lots of old lenses precisely because
    they're much cheaper than equivalent modern AF lenses. But maybe the
    price difference between eg a D80 and a D200 is less than the cost of
    replacing them.
     
    acl, Jul 27, 2007
    #38
  19. The design may be old, but Nikon kept/keeps on selling them.
    I don't think that argument makes much sense. If someone has an
    FE/FM/FE2/FM2, etc. with lenses and now wants to move to digital then a
    D80 does make sense. The main thing lacking would be the lack of support for
    non-cpu lenses.
    The good thing is that Nikon put full support for non-cpu lenses in the
    D200. There will always be entry level cameras that lack some advanced
    features.

    Another downside of the D80 is that it won't meter with a bellows.
    If Nikon were to add that option to the D80 then we would be complaining
    about the lack of that feature in the D40x.
     
    Philip Homburg, Jul 27, 2007
    #39
  20. Billy

    Sheldon Guest

    Let's be honest. Part of the reason for owning the D200 is to have a D200
    hanging around your neck when you go out in public. The D80 will do as much
    or more for you than the D200. Only you can compare features side-by-side
    and see if the D200 has features you can't live without.

    A friend of mine retired her D100 for a D200 because she take photos of
    horses and the D200 has a larger buffer and can fire off more fps than her
    D100. Otherwise, she has some stunning photos taken with the D100. It's
    not always the camera.
     
    Sheldon, Jul 28, 2007
    #40
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