Why did Nikon re-introduce TIFF file storage?

Discussion in 'Nikon' started by RichA, Sep 10, 2007.

  1. RichA

    Tony Polson Guest


    I can make my own chemicals. There are plenty of formulae available
    on the web. Keeping it fresh is therefore a non-issue. And I do
    routinely process it myself. High quality black and white printing
    is my speciality.

    But commercial film and chemical availability is very good indeed and
    all the signs are that it will remain so for many years to come.
    Colour film sales have stabilised and black and white film sales are
    actually growing. Film and chemicals will certainly still be around
    long after I have gone.

    Non-availbility of film is yet another non-problem dreamed up by
    digital afficionados who just cannot tolerate the idea that some
    people still enjoy (and indeed prefer) to use film.
     
    Tony Polson, Sep 11, 2007
    #21
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  2. RichA

    Tony Polson Guest


    Thanks Barry.
     
    Tony Polson, Sep 11, 2007
    #22
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  3. RichA

    Andrew Haley Guest

    Let me see if I understand your reasoning. The (supposed) fact that
    DNG doesn't have the facility for manufacturer-specific additions to
    the basic DNG format was, according to you, a reason not to use DNG.
    However, it turns out that DNG does have this facility. One would
    have thought this counted against your argument, but this is also,
    according to you, a reason not to use it.

    Andrew.
     
    Andrew Haley, Sep 11, 2007
    #23
  4. RichA

    Tony Polson Guest


    Neither is a reason to use it.

    There isn't a reason to use DNG, except for small camera manufacturers
    who cannot afford to develop their own RAW format and associated
    software, for example Leica.
     
    Tony Polson, Sep 11, 2007
    #24
  5. Because choice is good.
    Not that _you'd_ understand ... after all, there is only _one_
    _true_ RichA way, and all unbelievers are to be stoned to death
    (and not by LSD, either).

    -Wolfgang
     
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Sep 11, 2007
    #25
  6. RichA

    RichA Guest

    Film consumption has apparently increased sales in Europe and Japan
    recently but for all I know it could be movie filmstock. But, if film
    dies out, you could see the same thing happen as with vinyl (another
    inferior format) records. Niche companies crop up to supply a small
    demand.
     
    RichA, Sep 11, 2007
    #26
  7. RichA

    RichA Guest

    "Because choice is good." How often do you use the low-rez JPG mode
    in your camera? Don't lie to support your weak case either.
     
    RichA, Sep 11, 2007
    #27
  8. I wrote Nikon and Canon and told them to remove all JPG support from their
    dSLRs because nobody uses it.







    Rita
     
    Rita Ä Berkowitz, Sep 11, 2007
    #28
  9. RichA

    Andrew Haley Guest

    How does that explain your logic? First you say that a problem with
    DNG is that "it doesn't have the facility for manufacturer-specific
    additions", and when that turned out not to be true you said that the
    fact it *does* have this facility is also a problem.

    One of these must have been false. Which one was it? Does the
    presence of manufacturer-specific additions to DNG make it better or
    worse, or doesn't it make any difference?
    The reason to use DNG over proprietary formats is the same reason as
    to use any other open standard, surely. You wouldn't want to use a
    proprietary film format either. The only reason not to use DNG is
    that the big camera manufacturers don't support it. There's nothing
    technically wrong with DNG at all.

    Andrew.
     
    Andrew Haley, Sep 12, 2007
    #29
  10. RichA

    RichA Guest

    Those poor D40/x shooters.....What will they DO without the
    sledgehammer NR Nikon ladles on at 1600 ISO in JPEG?
     
    RichA, Sep 12, 2007
    #30
  11. RichA

    Robert Coe Guest

    : On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 19:00:03 -0700, RichA <>
    : wrote:
    :
    : >http://www.dpreview.com/previews/nikond300/
    :
    : IINM, Nikon has always offered the TIFF file format on its Pro bodies.
    : This is the first time it's offered it on a Prosumer DSLR.
    :
    : While I would never recommend shooting anything other than RAW, having
    : another lossless format available might have some short-term appeal
    : for a folks who buy a new model of camera - the RAW converter they use
    : might not support the camera. For example, the Canon 40D flavor of
    : .CR2 file is not supported by current versions of Lightroom and ACR.
    :
    : I just checked the list of supported cameras for ACR and the D300 is
    : not listed. ACR is updated quarterly, and the next version should be
    : released any day now. If the D300 isn't supported on this release,
    : folks will have to wait until January ... or find an alternative.
    :
    : TIFF would be a good short-term alternative.
    :
    : Now if Nikon and Canon would offer DNG support, either instead of or
    : in addition to the proprietary RAW formats....

    This week I discovered to my annoyance that Digital Photo Professional, which
    I use with my XTi, doesn't handle .CRW, the old Canon RAW mode. To get images
    taken with my G-5 and my wife's S50 into DPP, I had to edit them with
    Zoombrowser and save them as TIFF files. Is there a free (or at least cheap)
    converter from .CRW to .CR2?

    I'm using version 3.0.2.6 of DPP, which I believe is the latest and greatest.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Sep 16, 2007
    #31
  12. RichA

    Robert Coe Guest

    :
    : : > TRoss wrote:
    : >
    : >> TIFF would be a good short-term alternative.
    : >
    : > Agreed.
    : >
    : >> Now if Nikon and Canon would offer DNG support, either instead of or
    : >> in addition to the proprietary RAW formats....
    : >
    : > Thankfully Nikon is smart enough to not offer DNG support since its just
    : > another dead-ended street taking valuable bits in the firmware coding. At
    : > least TIFF, like you say, offers a short-term alternative that is 100%
    : > compatible with all photo editing programs and viewers. I know we covered
    : > this in the past and have determined DNG is a dieing wannabe format that
    : > won't be around in 5-years. Simply put, no professional photographer
    : > would ever use it.
    :
    : There you again with your completely lameass opinion.

    Rita's opinion may be lameass, but that doesn't make it wrong. I don't think I
    ever even heard of DNG. Do any important cameras actually use it?

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Sep 16, 2007
    #32
  13. RichA

    TRoss Guest

    DPP does not list the G5 or the S50 as a supported camera - the only
    PowerShot listed is the Pro1, and the support is limited. It does
    support the .CRW file format

    I'm not aware of one.

    You didn't mention what you use to process your pictures. If you use
    Photoshop or Photoshop Elements, you might consider converting your
    RAW images to DNG. The converter is free, and the latest version will
    work with XTi RAW files.

    I'm not aware of a utility that will convert .CRW to .CR2.


    Unless you're married to using DPP to process your images, you might
    consider converting your RAW images to the DNG format. To the best of
    my knoweledge, DPP cannot work with DNG files.

    The utility is free, and it supports all three cameras you mentioned.

    http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/new.jsp

    TR
     
    TRoss, Sep 16, 2007
    #33
  14. RichA

    TRoss Guest

    But it is wrong. It isn't a dieing format, it will be around and
    supported in 5-years, and professional photographers do use it.
    DNG (Digital Negative) is RAW format proposed by Adobe - it was to
    provide an open format that all camera manufacturers could use, and
    would help to eliminate the problem accessing the ever-growing list of
    proprietary RAW formats.

    Adobe provides a utility to convert proprietary RAW images to the DNG
    format. It is a free download

    http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/new.jsp


    The following cameras can capture DNG-format RAW files.
    Hasselblad H2D
    Leica Digital-Modul-R and M8
    Pentax K10D
    Ricoh GR Digital
    Samsung Pro 815


    TR
     
    TRoss, Sep 16, 2007
    #34
  15. RichA

    Charlie Self Guest

    I may start using DNG (Pentax K10D) when Adobe's free downloads work
    with something other than Adobe's non-free overpriced programs.
     
    Charlie Self, Sep 18, 2007
    #35
  16. RichA

    TRoss Guest

    I don't consider Photoshop to be overpriced. Expensive, yes. But it is
    a lot of program for the money. Photoshop Elements is almost as
    capable, and it is very reasonably priced.

    If you're looking for an alternative to Adobe products....

    GIMP, IrfanView, MediaChance PhotoBrush, PhotoLine 32, Picasa,
    StudioLine PhotoClassic, Ulead PhotoImpact and XnView all import DNG
    files.

    I think PSP Photo X2 also imports DNG files, but I'm not sure.


    TR
     
    TRoss, Sep 18, 2007
    #36
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