Why HD DVD has already won the format war over Sony's Blu Ray

Discussion in 'Amateur Video Production' started by slugbug, Nov 7, 2006.

  1. slugbug

    slugbug Guest

    After reading a lot of different articles about the two formats, I
    decided to stay far, far away from Sony's Blu-Ray technology. I want to
    be able to archive my own disks to my computer, so that I can watch the
    movie over my network whenever I want, without constantly having to get
    the actual disk down from the shelf.

    With Blu-Ray, that would be virtually impossible. Why?

    Well, with all lf the Blu-Ray players, there is a "back door" built in.

    This back door lets hollywood deactivate your player if anyone in the
    world with the same hardware happens to break their encryption. They do
    this by essentially writing in a "denial of service" message on the
    disks themselves, specifically telling it not to work properly on your
    player. It won't work again until you download a firmware upgrade, and
    update your machine. It is yet another step towards giving hollywood
    control over your machine.

    Remember DIVX, anyone? No, I'm not talking about the video compression
    codec. I'm talking about the players that let you watch the disks once,
    and made your machine call in to a database regularly. It was a
    competitor to DVD that came out about 8 years ago. Blu-Ray is a lot
    like that.

    There is a huge hacking community out there that will dedicate itself
    to breaking the encryption, just like they did with DVD's. Heck, they
    could break the new encryption on certain machines ever 3 weeks if they
    really worked at it. How would you like to be one of the folks owning
    that certain player? Or what if your Grandma, who might not have an
    Internet connection, had that player? She would get the headache of
    having her system stop working properly with rental disks every few
    weeks. Considering that Sony did the infamous rootkit thing, I'm not
    all that surprised that they are behind the Blu Ray disks.

    HD DVD doesn't incorporate this "back door" hollywood control
    mechanism. This means that the control over the player rests with you,
    and not hollywood.

    Sure, Sony and its affiliated studios are spending 4 times as much
    advertising how "great" Blu-Ray is, without mentioning any of the
    draconian restrictions. They are also hoping that if they only release
    their movies on Blu-Ray, you will decide to buy one of their players,
    thus ensuring that they win the format war, and further the cause of

    So, you want to become an "eSlave"? Buy Blu-Ray. Want to keep your
    rights, and not have to mess with updating your player's firmware every
    month? Buy HD DVD.

    Add to that the fact that HD DVD disks are easier to manufacture and
    will cost less, and it is really a no-brainer to see why HD DVD is the
    smart choice.
    slugbug, Nov 7, 2006
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  2. slugbug

    Mike Fields Guest

    What ??? Do you actually believe for 1 minute that the
    company that brought us the root kit would stoop so low
    as to put a back door in the hardware ???

    Don't know the facts here, but based on past history, it
    certainly would make me suspicious ...

    Mike Fields, Nov 8, 2006
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  3. slugbug

    Doz Guest

    So.. how exactly would they disable my player...?
    Doz, Nov 8, 2006
  4. slugbug

    l e o Guest

    From my understanding, the manufacturers can find out which brand/model
    of the player has been hacked and those players will be blacklisted in
    all the new movies release.
    l e o, Nov 8, 2006
  5. slugbug

    slugbug Guest

    From my understanding, the manufacturers can find out which brand/model
    Yep - basically a "denial of service" built into each disk,
    specifically targeted to that model and make of player. You'd still be
    able to play older releases, but wouldn't be able to play any new ones.
    (rentals, etc.)
    slugbug, Nov 8, 2006
  6. slugbug

    Ken Maltby Guest

    So what happens when all those customers come screaming
    back to the store demanding their money back for DVDs that
    won't play in their players? It won't just be the hacked players
    but all those of the same "make and model". Even if those
    selling the disks try to explain that it is a measure to stop piracy,
    Aunt Tilly is not going to like being treated as a crook, and we
    know she didn't hack her player.

    How would that work for software players?

    Ken Maltby, Nov 9, 2006
  7. "Ken Maltby" wrote...
    Assuming they allow software players at all?
    Assuming they can stop hacked software players?
    Of course the DMCA prevents creating a software
    player yourself, at least that is the theory here in USA.
    Richard Crowley, Nov 9, 2006
  8. slugbug

    GMAN Guest

    They would shutoff everyone who owned X brand of player just because 1 was
    compromised? I doubt that
    GMAN, Nov 9, 2006
  9. slugbug

    GMAN Guest

    Plus the fact that it would break the laws to do this in about every
    municipality, county, state and federal laws in the USA.
    GMAN, Nov 9, 2006
  10. slugbug

    Ray S Guest

    Where is the source for these accusations. The Blu-Ray tech, has a
    number of crippled features, not the least being that any open source
    products will be locked out, but I have never heard any of this blanket
    shutoff stuff. Sounds like one of those urban legends in the making.

    My understanding that you would require HDMI interface on your tV and
    the special decoders from approved vendors. Basically, its all
    assumptions that aunt tilly is a copying maniac criminal.

    Mostly would not be surprised if the public stays away from HD DVD's in
    droves. They just are not going to be persuaded to spend alot of money
    for any improvement over DVD's which they probably are quite happy with
    Ray S, Nov 9, 2006
  11. slugbug

    slugbug Guest

    They would shutoff everyone who owned X brand of player just because 1 was
    What? You mean you didn't notice that in all of Blu-Ray's
    advertising, prominently displayed up front for all of the consumers?
    Hmm, maybe they decided to hide the disclaimer just like they did their

    Seriously, this is a done deal. It is already in all of the Blu-Ray
    players out there.

    The way it works is this: someone hacks a certain player. Sony finds
    out about it with their "spies". They immediately phone back to
    headquarters with a "BREACH!" message. After that, everyone who has
    that version hardware player won't be able to play new disks.

    UNTIL they download a new firmware update. The update itself renders
    the hack useless, since the hack will no longer work. It also will
    make the player able to play the new disks again.

    So, basically, if you bought a new Blu-Ray player, you might as well
    get used to downloading firmware upgrades all the time.
    slugbug, Nov 10, 2006
  12. slugbug

    l e o Guest

    The objective is not to disable the players but the cracked code will
    not be usable to break new discs.
    l e o, Nov 10, 2006
  13. slugbug

    Quanta Guest

    And this is consumer friendly? Why do you for an instant think anyone will
    agree to this? What happens, as someone else points out, when joe bloe
    takes the machine back and demands a refund....then writes his Congressman?
    The whole scheme is terrible and will fail....and fail an a very
    spectacular, public fashion.

    The media industries are run by pointed haired boss dilbertian idiots.
    Quanta, Nov 10, 2006
  14. Hacking firmware is done as well. For many DVD-players you can find
    firmware which is hacked to bypass the region-restricting. So it's just a
    matter of time until someone found a hack in the BR-player' firmware.

    Martin Heffels, Nov 10, 2006
  15. slugbug

    slugbug Guest

    I use Nero 7 Ultimate, and with their h.246 (Nero AVC) compression,
    you can easily fit:

    over 24 hours of regular quality video or,

    over 4 hours of 1920x1080 HD content

    This is on a regular old DVD +R disk.

    That means that I can burn a couple of HD movies to a regular DVD,
    then play them on my PC, without buying a new drive or anything. My
    only expense was about $50 for the Nero 7 Ultimate Edition software.
    (well, ok, I spent another $50 on a HDTV Tuner card, which gives me
    virtually unlimited content to archive)

    The resulting disks should be playable in any of the new standalone
    players, since they are h.264 compatible. For right now, though, I'll
    just stick with what I've already got.
    slugbug, Nov 10, 2006
  16. slugbug

    Ray S Guest

    So? Its akin to forbidding EVERYONE from crossing the street because
    someone down the block crossed against the light.

    It sort of surprises me that people get up in arms over the idea of
    traffic radar with cameras, yet they will accept a device that someone
    else can shut off. My mother can't even set the clock on her VCR. At
    which point is she going to get brave enough to update firmware in media
    player? Firmware? Whats that? Stiff pants?
    Ray S, Nov 10, 2006
  17. slugbug

    l e o Guest

    It is no difference than software requires on-line authorization.
    DirectTV requires phone line to update the decryption codes each night.
    Plus people who just want the movie contents can still get them from
    many other means; just not exact copies from Blu-Ray discs.
    l e o, Nov 11, 2006
  18. slugbug

    Doc Guest

    I'm not sure I totally get what you're saying but from what I gather, if
    true, this sounds like a self-defeating strategy. How long before you cut
    out a/or piss off such a large chunk of your market that you don't sell
    enough disks to be profitable?

    For myself, I remain highly unimpressed by HDTV in general.
    Doc, Nov 12, 2006
  19. HDTV is nice, but it looks like a lot of the material is still uprezzed SD,
    and of course the bean-counters along the signal-path which it takes to
    travel to your home, make sure they can squeeze every bit to put more
    channels in one stream (with all it's compression artifacts).

    Over here they (Essent/KPN etcetera, in Holland) try to talk people into
    digital TV in HD-quality. But right now they don't even manage to show the
    regular SD-channels in decent quality, so I am a lost cause to them :))
    Besides, once I show my friends in the shop what to look for, they notice
    the bad quality as well, and stay away from it too.


    Martin Heffels, Nov 12, 2006
  20. slugbug

    Edward Guest

    For me... I see no need to pay out the ass to watch the Philadelphia
    Eagles lose in HDTV.
    I can sit here and watch them get their asses kicked in SDTV for a few
    more years.
    Edward, Nov 12, 2006
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