Why oh why did I have to find out about 24p?

Actually I didn't even find out about 24p directly -- I was watching
some of the "extra footage" on a PBS DVD and they were saying
something to the effect, "24 Frame HDTV has been a true godsend".

I got to thinking about this ... I'm thinking, "Hmmmm ... they must be
talking about the 480p mode set to 24 frames/second."

So I do some digging around and I bump into this Panasonic AG-DVX100A
-- which of course by itself costs as much as the entire stack of D100
stuff that I have -- to say nothing of the ... what ... $3000 worth of
Avid software it takes to run the thing, plus, what, $2500 to $3000
for a PC that can handle the Avid software.

Question ...

Have any of you ever watched the "extra footage" on the tail end of
the "Bamboozled" DVD? This movie was CLEARLY shot in 480i/60 on one
of the early iterations of the DV format. How did they downstep to 24
frames/second to get it onto film?

Thanks!

Ax

 

Have any of you ever watched the "extra footage" on the tail end of

Yup, "Bamboozled" was shot on a VX1000. I think SONY did the transfer to film,
but I might be wrong.

Got to www.dvfilm.com and check out there $99 software for converting
interlaced into 24p.

For $99 it does a great job. I bet a similar process was used on "Bamboozled".
Probably cost a lot more back then...

Peace,
Vic Morris
http://vicmorris.blogspot.com

 

Most of the PBS producers are using Final Cut Pro these days. So
there's no need for 5000+ dollar avid systems any more.

http://www.apple.com/pro/video/ehrlich/index3.html

And FCP supports 24fps, and the tools for doing such conversion are
built right in now to FCP HD.

Oh.. and yeah, that Panasonic DVX100a is causing quite the stir these
days too. It's just awesome!

-Richard

 

There are a few companies that specialize in transfer of video to film. It's
been done for quite some time, now. Remember "Blair Witch"?

 

Richard... thanks for the Apple ad.. . The statement you made is not only
unprovable but .. rediculous. $5000 systems? a decent FCP (decent?) system
is not free.. nor is it any cheaper than similar competition..

 

Ahh..ok.. no commercial, just stating a fact. Many studios, including
several that I've involved with or do business with have moved to all
FCP systems, simply because you can buy 4 FCP systems for the price of 1
Avid system..

I'm very sorry that you don't like these facts, but it doesn't change
anything... sorry.

-Richard

 

DVFilm.com is one of them.

Check their page.

All the best

Fidel.

 

That's probalby more accurate.. but still BS. You can buy DV systems for
less but you really don't save that much when you are putting together
competing systems.. And I don't know who you work with but ALL of the
facilities that I use relegate the FCP systems to low budget clients..
Mostly because FCP is still a buggy mess. Just a complete piece of shit.

Your post wasn't fact. Just an Apple commercial. And a little hopeful on
your part. I believe it was you who posted that you do editing as a side
job.. perfect candidate for FCP.. you don't really have to depend on it and
can put up with its bugs and performance issues. If you think major
facilities are giving up their AVIDs to put up with FCP.. you're dreaming.
Sorry.

 

I see it's time for my semi-regular "keep Nappy from going nuts and
frothing at the mouth" post.

Lets see, the score for FCP - what he calles a "buggy mess" now ranges
into sitcoms, dramatic work for TV and feature films, and literally
thousands of independent DV features.

Somehow Apple and FCP has managed to MESMERIZE the tens of thousands of
working professionals that use it every day into somehow overlooking what
HE perceives as it's massive faults. Some trick, huh?

And according to old nappy, we're all IDIOTS for using FCP!

And if we just had HIS keen perceptions, we'd all realize that all these
pesky clients PAYING for our FCP work are, also, fools.

Still to date, full scale (and quite expensive) AVIDs and MUCH less
expensive Final Cut Pro systems are the only hardware/software
combinations regularly used to edit major hollywood movies and episodic
television programs where millions of dollars of investment are on the
line.

That certainly does NOT mean that there isn't other, equally capable
software out there - just that to date, these twp systems had an
established record of success making them safe choices for professional
work.

Come to your own conclusions.

(nappy's the ultimate proof of the old saying "never let the facts get in
the way of your opinions")

 

And that means? AVIDS are buggy to and a lot more work has been done on
them.. There's no point there.

Poor bill... Can't you keep your emotions out of this. I never talk about
users.. only programs.. surely you have more class than that. For the most
part it is the CLIENTS who dictate what editors works on. Unfortunately...



.... Final Cut Pro systems are the only hardware/software

Spoken like someone who lives and works in Scottsdale Arizona. And maybe
makes an occasional trip to LA. As someone who routinely works on those
shows you are talking about.. I can say... You don't know what you are
talking about.

yak yak..

Sorry Bill.. It is the other way around I am afraid.. YOu have NEVER
addressed my points about FCP being a dog bitch when it comes to sloppy
coding, sluggish operation, poor performance in rendering and audio
playback, and on and on... All you can ever muster is an attack on me and
your old fallback of how many people (you think) are using FCP. And that is
because you don;t use FCP the way I and manyh others do...And you stated
that. Time and time again.

Been fun though.. You've been so quiet lately.

 

Frankly 'thousands of independent DV features' is meaningless to me. You
could probably say the same about any DV editing system that's been out for
any length of time.

I would, however, be curious about the sitcoms, dramatic TV shows, and
RELEASED features that have been edited on FCP. Any info on the specifics?

 

Isn't there desktop pc software that will take 30p and 60i to 24p?

Dan

 

No problem. Chuck half of your picture information (spatial and
temporal) to get you down from 60i to 30p and then chuck another
30% to get you down to 24P, then up chuck

There are people that extract 24p from 60i by evaluating the temporal
detail that is in the 60i video and convert it to something that looks like
motion blur, while maintaining the full resolution of portions of the image
that are not moving. You need the 60i (or 50i PAL) to make it work
properly. 30p just doesn't have enough temporal information to make
it work. They claim to use proprietary software to pull off this trick,
but I've always thought it could probably do it with off the shelf
software like Retimer. Of course Retimer isn't Cheap (it was $5000
at one time)

David

 

How about we start with Cold Mountain, which was nominated for 8 academy
awards including Walter Murch for best editor..

http://www.postmagazine.com/post/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=79165
http://www.apple.com/pro/film/coen/
http://www.digitalfilmtree.com/images/credits/adaywithoutmexican.html
http://www.apple.com/pro/film/eason/
http://www.apple.com/pro/film/lowry/


Then.. we can mover over to NBC's Scrubs TV show.. I believe that a
large portion of NBC has moved all the systems to FCP.

http://www.editorsguild.com/newsletter/NovDec03/novdec03_scrubs_fcp4.html
http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2003/10/02/scrubs/index.php

How about some other TV stations/studios switching from Avid to FCP..

http://www.apple.com/pro/video/ktvx/
http://www.pluginz.com/news/606
http://www.apple.com/uk/hotnews/articles/fcp_india/
http://www.apple.com/uk/pro/video/groundforce/
http://www.dvcreators.net/about/
http://www.apple.com/pro/video/stern/
http://www.apple.com/uk/pro/video/hangman/
http://www.acfnewsource.org/art/latino_reality.html
http://www.reelwest.com/happening/news/2002_july/artifex.htm
http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news.php?newsId=7
http://bth.broadcastengineering.com/ar/broadcasting_apple_emerges_nab/
http://www.editorsguild.com/newsletter/MarApr01/final_cut_mainstream.html
http://www.apple.com/hotnews/articles/2002/08/emmy/
http://www.apple.com/pro/video/perception/
http://www.editorsguild.com/newsletter/MayJun01/fcp_seminar.html
http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/Focus-on-editing/f_ja_Final_Cut_Pro.shtml


And here's one of my favorites.. You know that HBO tvshow called "real
sex".. done on FCP too!!

http://homepage.mac.com/stevegarfield/movies/hbo.html

No telling how many porn studios use FCP now instead of Avid now too.

Google just rocks..
-Richard

 

Good try Bill,

I went round and round with this nappy guy a month ago and like you said
he never let's a fact get in the way of an argument.

I think he must have been emotionally scarred by somebody at apple or
perhaps even fired from there for being a dumbass. It seems every time
someone mentions FCP he feels the need to talk about problems that only
exist in his little world. It must be hard to carry such hate.

For the fun of it I did a little fact checking and none of his theories
had basis. Kill files work well with him.

bill

 

Nice list. But why not use Google to do a search for programmes and films
that have been put together on Avid and that list above will pale into
insignificance. Fact...

When you used Google did you type in "Apple propaganda" as your search
criteria?

 

Bill.. you went round and round? All you did was yak and respond emotionally
to my FCP rant.. Until you gave up, of course. With no points to make.. most
people usually do give up.. or start insulting the messenger...

 

Apple propaganda for sure.. No one cares what NBC edits their crap on. And
as far as Cold Mountain.. what a piece of shit that was.. I couldn't sit
through the whole thing. Annoying as hell.. Again.. who gives a crapload
WHAT these shows are cut on? When NORMAL people have to suffer through FCP
Apple is there holding their hands out for $200 service incidents. I rather
doubt Mr. Murch paid for service incidents eh? Let's see what Murch uses to
cut "The Assumption" .. I'll bet it won't be FCP.

All ANYONE has to do to find out what FCP is really like is visit the
forums..I've said it a million times.. A point lost on most here who don't
really use FCP for much more than talking heads... sure it is fine for
that.. If you can keep it running..

 

For the same reason that plugging in 35 mm film would make the Avid list
'pale into insignificance'. It would prove nothing, other than the fact
that film (and Avid) have been around for years longer than FCP.

Let's see. You seem to be inferring that a factual list of programs cut
with FCP is Apple propaganda? Impressive logic.

Steve King

 

If that logic escapes you, try this.. what he was saying was that it is a
typical PR tactic to yak-yak about people using a company's products.. It is
propaganda and pretty much meaningless because while they may have used FCP,
Apple would NEVER say how many problems they may have had.. so in that sense
it is propaganda.