Wich Firewire card?

Discussion in 'Video Cameras' started by Bruno Paula, Sep 17, 2003.

  1. Bruno Paula

    Bruno Paula Guest

    Hi,

    I'm a newbie in the digital video world and
    i recently bought 1 sony DCR-TRV22E. I want to transfer the films to my PC
    and edit.
    Wich firewire card can i use?
    My PC:
    pentium 4 1.5GHz
    128 MB RAM
    IBM 60 GXP 40 GB

    I saw 1 card from Conceptronic (Ci1394B) for a nice price (28euros) and then
    i saw pinnacle Studio DV and Studio DV Clip for 75 euros each. Are any of
    these cards a good deal?

    Please give me some help.

    Thanks in advance
     
    Bruno Paula, Sep 17, 2003
    #1
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  2. I've got the same camera, TRV22, and bought the SIIG FireWire board, which came
    bundled with Ulead VideoStudio 6. First results to a nearly full HDD were poor
    as my transfers generated ~1600 dropped frames over a short 10 minute upload.
    So I added a dedicated 40GB HDD, and dropped frames dropped to zero, testing
    against the same clip. PC is an Athlon 1GHz, 256MB RAM, and now has two 40GB
    HDDs.
    My board cost about 50GBP, and came with the necessary FireWire interface cable.
    Sorry I don't know anything about the boards you've listed.
     
    Malcolm Stewart, Sep 18, 2003
    #2
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  3. Bruno Paula

    Tony Morgan Guest

    You're memory is very marginal. You really do need 256M. Get your
    firewire card from Dabs at about £11. Check you're getting a firewire
    cable included.
    You'll need a video editor. See http://www.camcord.info/basics/ for
    options and approximate costs.
     
    Tony Morgan, Sep 18, 2003
    #3
  4. Bruno Paula

    SjT Guest

    Have at least 256MB of memory if i was you, 512MB preferrably.

    got to www.crucial.com and select your country and motherboard etc it
    will recommend the memory you require.

    also search www.deja.com for this months discount code, you will get a
    further 5% off from crucial on purchases with that.
     
    SjT, Sep 18, 2003
    #4
  5. Bruno Paula

    lpp Guest

    I've got the same camera, TRV22, and bought the SIIG FireWire board, which came
    And I regret to tell you that the one from Dabs (cable included) for
    about £12 would have done the job equally well. Unless you really
    wanted the Ulead program. Cheap video editors are now dead in the
    water, the latest Windows Movie Maker, available on free download from
    Windows Update, does all the basic stuff very well indeed.

    IMO, Ulead, in an attempt to be stylish, was merely idiosyncratic.
     
    lpp, Sep 18, 2003
    #5
  6. Thanks for the tip. I've checked the MS site. However...
    I'm running Win 98SE, and I'm out of range for a Broadband connection, and I
    don't live in the USA or Canada so can't get the CD version. Perhaps when I
    upgrade my PC or operating system, and /or move house.
     
    Malcolm Stewart, Sep 18, 2003
    #6
  7. Bruno Paula

    lpp Guest

    Thanks for the tip. I've checked the MS site. However...
    If you're into video, you're holding yourself back by not going to XP.
    If only for Movie Maker. You might even get the new version on the
    install disks if you buy now. Anyway, the update from version 1
    isn't, I think, THAT big a download. I did quite a few bigger ones
    before broadband.
     
    lpp, Sep 18, 2003
    #7
  8. Firstly, I agree with the poster who recommended the DABS (www.dabs.com)
    cheap firewire card. It's not even GBP12 - it's less. You find the cheap
    firewire card under "dabs value". It has 2 firewire ports which show on the
    outside, and one which shows on the inside. This helps you run a firewire
    lead from a front panel connector. I use the one from www.redstore.com which
    costs about GBP8, and brings firewire, usb and sound to the front of the
    pc.The dabs cheap firewire card is the inno dv 1000le. There is also a more
    expensive version with an extra external port and some software bundled. You
    don't need drivers: they are in win98 and later already.

    I have run my firewire card on several pc machines, with win98se and xp. It
    even coexists with onboard firewire.

    That brings me to the second point. Under ntfs and xp, you can capture video
    more intelligently. Under 98, it gets stuffed into avi files, the max length
    of which is 4Gb. Under ntfs there isn't a 4Gb file limit. I've been using
    Dazzle Moviestar 5 (alas, no more Dazzle, now a part of Pinnacle). Under xp,
    the software divides the capture up into scenes for you: much smarter.

    Eddie B.
     
    Eddie Bromhead, Sep 18, 2003
    #8
  9. Which version of XP? Home or Pro?, and are they now considered stable?
    I'm still smarting after upgrading to Access97 and finding that several of my
    programmed databases stopped working after MS had changed their "behind the
    forms" software.

    What about drivers for the newer digicams?
    I've kept to Win98Se and so far all my photo type addenda to my PC have worked
    fine.

    Thanks for any info.
     
    Malcolm Stewart, Sep 19, 2003
    #9
  10. IMHO, Home is the better bet for this sort of use. Pro comes wih
    all sorts of software which you don't want, and takes up lots of
    resources. (And is more expensive!)

    IMHO also, XP is stable, with the major caveat that this *only*
    applies if all your hardware has proper XP drivers. If it doesn't it
    *can* be a pig to keep stable.

    The main reason for going to XP is the use of NTFS instead of FAT32
    for the filing system, which allows files larger than 4GB. As Digital
    Video regularly produces huge files this is a big bonus!

    Some video apps can do some behind-the-scenes fiddling under
    Win98SE to get round this limitation.
    Regards,
    Harry.
     
    Harry Broomhall, Sep 19, 2003
    #10
  11. Bruno Paula

    lpp Guest

    Home would be fine. It's the same as Pro, minus a few features,
    largely to do with running on large networks.
    Anything that connects by USB or Firewire will be absolutely "Plug &
    Play", no special driver or download program needed.
    XP has never been accused of being unstable. At the beginning, there
    were the usual delays while some hardware got drivers written, some
    programs needed modification. But you won't have trouble with
    anything concerned with digital video.
     
    lpp, Sep 19, 2003
    #11
  12. Bruno Paula

    Tony Morgan Guest

    Not quite true (I suspect you don't understand what Plug and Play really
    is). Try connecting my HP Deskjet 99Cxi through USB. Doesn't work unless
    the right driver is installed. Same with my Epson Perfection 1200
    scanner.

    Insofar as Firewire, Plug and Play actually does nothing. Even if you
    connect your camcorder, Plug and Play does nothing. And even when you
    switch you camcorder on and run your video editor on, Plug and Play does
    nothing.
     
    Tony Morgan, Sep 19, 2003
    #12
  13. Bruno Paula

    lpp Guest


    I know what Plug & Play is. And I know what it's loosely understood
    to mean, which is why I put it in inverted commas.

    I think we were talking about cameras.
     
    lpp, Sep 21, 2003
    #13
  14. Bruno Paula

    Tony Morgan Guest

    Exactly. And your sentence immediately above seems to reinforce the
    thought that you, indeed, don't know what plug and play is.

    Plug a camera into your firewire port and nothing happens, no search or
    prompt for drivers - nothing. Your PC is oblivious to the fact that
    you've just plugged your camcorder into your firewire port.
     
    Tony Morgan, Sep 21, 2003
    #14
  15. Bruno Paula

    lpp Guest

    Exactly. And your sentence immediately above seems to reinforce the
    Can't you ever argue a point without trying to put down the other
    person?
    I just plugged a dv camera into the Firewire port of the laptop I'm
    writing this on. Windows XP came up with the "Digital Video Device
    connected, what would you like to do?" Video editing programs now
    see the camera as a possible in/out device.

    The same happens when I plug a still camera into USB. Or when I
    connect my external Firewire hard drive to any of my computers.
    Device recognised, no driver needed, device recognised by appropriate
    programs. In the case of a still camera, its storage appears
    conveniently as an external drive, allowing data to be directly copied
    to computer.

    This is hardly Windows being oblivious to the device! It's what is
    generally referred to as "Plug & Play". There's an extension of this
    concept - "Universal Plug & Play" - described at:
    http://www.upnp.org/download/UPnPDA10_20000613.htm
    for anyone who's interested. Maybe this is what you're nit-picking
    about?

    There are, of course, Firewire and USB - connected devices that
    require drivers. My Epson scanner needs a driver, my Epson and HP
    printers don't (or rather, a Windows XP setup contains suitable
    drivers). Digital cameras, still or video, in my experience have not
    needed drivers to be provided.
     
    lpp, Sep 21, 2003
    #15
  16. Bruno Paula

    loz Guest

    Not quite sure what you're driving at here Tony.
    If I connect my Sony camcorder via Firewire to my computer running XP Prof and
    switch it on, then Windows Movie Maker immediately loads (I must have selected
    that as the default action at some time in the past), and opens up the capture
    dialog with "Sony DV Device" already selected.
    So I wouldn't say the PC is oblivious.

    loz
     
    loz, Sep 21, 2003
    #16
  17. Bruno Paula

    Tony Morgan Guest

    I'm not putting you down, you seem to be doing that (and doing a mighty
    good job of it I might add).
    I've never ever seen this (not with Firewire). Anyone else seen it?

    Did it *really* say this? Or did it say it *after* you ran a video
    application?
    Nor this. Anyone else seen it? If they had (and if you aren't
    bullshitting) I'd be very surprised since the firewire port is passive
    until an application, process or service on your PC interrogates it.
    Yes. That does happen - but is not relevant in this context (we're
    talking about *firewire* - not USB). Why are you procrastinating?
    And you've never *ever* installed firewire HDD drivers? My Pyro Firewire
    HDD required the initial installation of drivers.

    Is this *really* what it says BTW?
    That's using USB. Stop bulllshitting and talking out of context.
    Clearly your powers of comprehension are somewhat lacking. Do read the
    second, third and fourth paragraphs of "What is Universal Plug and Play"
    at the link you're referring to. uPnP was developed so that Messenger
    can crack in and out of your computer (and ultimately led to the Blaster
    virus).

    uPnP is designed for and utilised by processes and services (programs
    for you).- not for hardware.
    Only when they're connected via USB. Even when using a camcorder as a
    webcam via firewire you need a driver *and" an application to access the
    driver/camcorder.

    Or are you now going to suggest that you can use a firewire-connected
    camcorder as a webcam without a driver/application?
     
    Tony Morgan, Sep 21, 2003
    #17
  18. Bruno Paula

    Tony Morgan Guest

    Sorry, I thought it obvious.
    I would. Our "friend" is suggesting that you don't need a driver,
    process or service to access a device via firewire. MM installs a
    service (which is solely usable by MM - it probes the firewire port).
    Having installed MM you can see the service running in Manager. You can
    also see it by running EndItAll (I think that EndItAll will by default
    close it).

    This, BTW is why it's sometimes necessary to switch the camcorder on
    *and* into Replay/VCR mode before running your video editor - I'm sure
    you'll recall that this issue been raised on several occasions. Firewire
    port is passive, Video application (when run) probes the port, if
    nothing found does nothing or tells you so, if "active" camcorder found
    then sets up communication with the camcorder.

    Because MM is Microsoft, it installs a service which puts a watch on the
    firewire port and when the cam is attached fires up MM itself. This is
    also (BTW) why MM requires XP to work because XP services won't run on
    other MS OS.
     
    Tony Morgan, Sep 21, 2003
    #18
  19. Bruno Paula

    lpp Guest

    I'm not putting you down, you seem to be doing that (and doing a mighty
    Tony, you're being an oaf again. Please stop it.

    One report just in. There'll be more.
    Remember we're talking about Windows XP. Did you catch that bit?

    They're provided in Windows XP. Again, did you note at the beginning
    of this thread that we're discussing XP?
    Naughty! You're being an oaf again :)

    This is hardly the main issue. But, if you read me carefully, you'll
    see that I admit to using "Plug & Play" loosely. I'm quite aware of
    the correct meaning, originally referring to pci cards, lately
    extended to uPnP
    Actually, later versions of Windows Messenger under Windows XP do
    recognise a Firewire-connected dv camera directly as a webcam. Though
    splitting hairs over whether a driver/application is only to be noted
    as such if it has to be specifically loaded rather than being included
    in Windows is of little import.

    Before you rant further, please check earlier posts that make it clear
    we're discussing Windows XP.
     
    lpp, Sep 21, 2003
    #19
  20. Bruno Paula

    lpp Guest

    No I'm not. I never mentioned "process" or "service". Nothing
    happens in XP without these. I said that there was no need to
    specifically install a driver. And there isn't, it's there already
    in Windows XP.

    Buffoon.
     
    lpp, Sep 21, 2003
    #20
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