Will miniDVCAM tapes play in low end miniDV camcorders?

Greetings!

I shoot with a Sony PD100A and would like to use a regular miniDV
camcorder such as the DCR-HC30 to playback, rewind and such the DVCAM
tapes made on my PD100A. Anyone know if this will work? I want to do
this to cut down wear and tear on my PD100A....and do not want to buy a
GV-D1000.

Thanks

Scott

 

I used to switch MiniDV tape, record, play, rewind and fast forward with
Sony Handycam, Sharp ViewCam, Panasonic DS7 and DV+VHS compo deck. There is
no problem at all even I switch SP and LP mode in the same tape and use
different brand. You may get blue screen if recorded source is LP and
capability of display source is SP mode.

 

I have 6 of those PD100A camcorders, so I know them pretty well. The
answer is ... maybe. Lots of SONY units will play DVCAM. It won't
hurt to try it. I know some Panasonic units playback DVCAM as well.
That other person that responded doesn't realize that this isn't a
brand issue--it's a format problem. DVCAM tapes run 50 per cent faster
than DV.

 

Thanks for the reply. I've been communicating with Sony support. They
will not acknowledge that DVCAM plays in some minidv comcorders. Below
is my communication with them...interesting


Customer : Will the DCR-HC20 or DCR-HC30 playback DVCAM tapes made
on my PD100A?

Response (Arnold) - 12/21/2004 03:41 AM
Thank you for contacting us with your inquiry regarding sony Mini DV
camcorders.

The DCR-HC20 and the DCR-HC30 are Mini DV camcorders and cannot
playback the DVCAM tapes.

Customer - 12/21/2004 03:58 PM
Will the GV-D300 Editing deck play miniDVCAM tapes? I do not see that
listed in the specs.

Response (Dylan) - 12/22/2004 12:44 AM
Thank you for contacting us with your inquiry.

The DVCAM Tapes are not compatible with the GV-D300 Digital Video
Cassette Recorder. You can use only the Mini DV cassettes.

Customer - 12/22/2004 02:03 PM
Hi there

My last question "Will the GV-D300 Editing deck play miniDVCAM tapes?"
was a loaded question to ascertain the accuracy of the first answer
regarding the use of the DCR-HC20 and/or the DCR-HC30 Mini DV
camcorders to playback the miniDVCAM tape. There seems to be some
confusion. I have been using the GV-D300 Digital Video Cassette
Recorder to PLAY miniDVCAM tapes for the last 4 years! Would you please
dig a little deeper within the Sony organization to definitively make a
true finding regarding the use of the DCR-HC20 and/or the DCR-HC30 Mini
DV camcorders to PLAYBACK the miniDVCAM tape. Also, how do you explain
me being able to use the GV-D300 Digital Video Cassette Recorder to
PLAY miniDVCAM tapes for the last 4 years when your answer said it
would not.

Looking forward to your response.

Response (Glenn) - 12/23/2004 01:49 AM
Thank you for contacting us with your inquiry regarding Sony GV-D300
Digital Video cassette recorder.

The recommended tapes to be used with the Sony GV-D300 Digital Video
cassette recorder are the tapes with DV logo in them. If the tape that
you use confines to these standards, you may use them with this Digital
Video cassette recorder.

We do not have information on the whether the GV-D300 Editing deck will
playback miniDVCAM tapes. Playing other type of media in these
recorders are not recommended.

Please refer to the instruction manual for information regarding the
same.

The DCR-NC20 and the DCR-HC30 MiniDV camcorders are compatible with
only MiniDV tapes and Sony recommeds that you use the compatible tapes
with these camcorders for optimum performance.

 

Typical customer non-service from a gigantic multi-national
corporation. What exactly were you expecting?

Those responses were cut-n-paste right out of the corporate
doublespeak handbook. Anyone who has dealt with a large
corporation could have predicted almost word-for-word
what they said.

Other anecdotal evidence indicates that except for the very
earliest generation, virtually all Sony DV equipment will
also read DVCAM cassettes.

Note, however, that DV equipment and DVCAM equipment
come from different divisions of Sony. Their management
and design centers may not even be in the same country.
And if you were the management of the DVCAM part of Sony,
would you admit that the cheaper consumer stuff would play
DVCAM, thereby possibly jeapordizing part of your customer
base?

 

Thanks for the reply. I've been communicating with Sony

Don't ya just love it!!

 

Most equipment will play miniDVCAM tapes as long as it
is RECORDED in DV mode. The tape is basically the
same, with the exception of Sony's tape being
marginally thicker with DVCAM, and the markings will
be shorter due to the speed made for faster moving
DVCAM transports.

As for the a DVCAM recording, most of the newer Sony
decks will playback a tape recorded in DVCAM. provided
it fits in the deck/cam. A non-DVCAM deck or camera
will not record in DVCAM.

So in otherwords, most Sony decks/cams will playback
DVCAM recordings, only DVCAM products can record in
DVCAM. If you didn't know, "mini" is the smaller
tapes. Standard DV or standard DVCAM is the larger
tapes. Some confuse DVCAM to mean that is it always
the larger tape. "Mini"dvcam is the smaller tape
marked in time for the dvcam speed recording.
Regular DVCAM is the larger tape marked for time of
DVCAM recording. DVCAM is associated to the tape
speed moving faster than standard DV, it can be mini,
or standard size.

Sony does not care if you know that the consumer gear
may playback DVCAM recordings, in fact, they find that
an advantage to purchasing sony low end instead of
someone elses low end DV product.
They get you to buy DVCAM when you want to RECORD in
DVCAM or think that less dropouts will benifit you.
They keep you buying sony over panasonics DVCPRO line
due to the ability to edit DVCAM with the same gear
needed to edit standard DV.

They do not mind PLAYBACK of DVCAM recordings because
it in no way threatens their higher end product line.
If you want to playback a DVCAM recording, it had to
be recorded on DVCAM gear, so somewhere along the
line, DVCAM gear had to have been purchased. If you
think you "got-over" on Sony finding out your consumer
gear plays DVCAM recordings, Sony is also lauging,
because they know if you think that, you can not
afford DVCAM anyway ;-0

 

@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
says...

 

The DSR decks we have here will only record DVCAM.

 

nope

 

"Digitalias" wrote ...

Disagree. Many (most?) DV camcorders/VCRs (particularly
Sony models) WILL playback (but not record) DVCAM.

 

Name a few in the price range of the PD100A please. Their $1500 unit will
play them but not record as you say. Here are the 4 consumer units Sony
lists that play DVCAM;
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INT...rch_keyword=DVCam&selected_category_name=None
The PD100A list the following compatibilities;

a.. DV Playback Capability
The DVX2000 won't play DVCAM.
Mike

 

Either they have actually removed DVCAM playback
functionality (I wouldn't put it past them, to prevent the
consumer division from cratering the pro business) or
else you are relying on notoriously skimpy product info.
Sony is extremely stingy with real, comprehensive
product info. I own lots of Sony audio and video stuff
and their cut sheets are written like a telegram from a
stingy rich uncle.

 

A couple of things here guys: (I am a dealer and know the line pretty well,
not to say I don't make mistakes too!)

#1 MiniDV and DVCAM tapes are usable in all mini and standard sized DV
recorders. You won't hear Sony say this, but it's the same tape physically
and Will work either way. I have done it many times. Not a question.
-Sony put a different track pitch spec on their DVCAM units and runs it
at 1.33 times the speed of standard (small = minidv, standard=large dv <tape
shell description only, tape is the same thing inside)

** so, a 60 minute minidv tape in a dvcam camcorder will net 40 minutes
of video in the dvcam mode. You can change the dvcam recorders (some of
them, i.e. DSR11, DSR20, 25, and 45 I believe only, and then the dsrpd100,
150, and 170 all to record a standard dv signal on eihter dvcam tape or std.
dv tape. you have to know all your variables. It's like saying a hotrod
can run on high octane best, but it may only make 80% of it's capable
horsepower on low octane fuel. The faster tape speed nets higher quality
video~!! The different track pitch offers a more robust signal to be used
throughout editing and post production.

Anyone Remember M6 VHS??? Ran wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy fast and looked super clean.
Didn't catch on. Betamax?? One of sony's best ever formats.. it had 3
different speeds too, the fastest one or lowest time of recorded video,
coincidentally was the highest quality. VHS...??? ever record SLP or EP
modes and wonder why it looks like crap? cramming too much info in too
little of space of magnetic media. The theory here is the less you cram on
the tape, the higher quality it will be to view.
Please call me to discuss this further, as it's a long subject which is best
talked about vs. written, (my typing is slow)..

Kevin 913-831-6700 S&S Video Distributors, Inc. Kansas City...

 

Just one slight correction there. The DSR 20 will record on either tape but
only at DVCAM speed PAL only. Now the DSR 11, which came out later and was
cheaper, can record both DV versions in Pal and NTSC. A case of less is
more!
--
Maurice Fleisher <>
www.videoenterprises.co.uk
High Wycombe. UK

--

 

Just a couple more things.

So many of us have gotten grossly wrong information from salesmen, that
saying you are a dealer may or may not help your argument.

The video quality of consumer DV, DV-Cam, and even the low speed
consumer format all contain the same 1s and 0s at the same data rate.
If everything is up to spec, there should be no difference in quality of the
video (picture quality). The main difference is that the higher tape speed
doesn't have to squeeze as much data onto each inch of tape, and is
thus slightly less susceptible to dropouts. DV has excellent error
correction,
so you might not even notice if there were minor dropouts in any of the
DV formats. Video with more dropouts would be of lesser quality than
video without dropouts, so there is some merit to the thought that the
higher speed = higher quality, but it doesn't come up much here. Assuming
that your equipment and tape is working correctly the DATA should be just
the same across the formats.

Somehow I missed M6. I do remember M2 from Panasonic. It used a VHS
form-factor cassette, but at a much higher tape speed. The recording quality
was up there with standard Betacam (not SP) but the hardware (at least the
first round) was unreliable junk. Analog is different than DV in that tape
speed
directly affects what you see on the screen. With digital formats, as long
as
the numbers get recorded correctly, there is no difference. You do have a
better shot at reliably getting the right numbers at the higher speed, but
it
isn't the same issue as with analog.

I have a consumer DV camera (TRV-900) and I digitize DV-Cam with it
several times a month. I can't speak for other consumer devices.

David

 

I have tried some Canon models, the GL1/2 (XM1/2 in Pal land) will
definitely not read DVCAM.

 

That seems consistent with the concept that the Sony products
are more likely to be able to read DVCAM than other brands.

 

Sony camcorders do play DVCAM, I'm using DCR TRV40.