Would Ansel Adams use Photoshop?

Discussion in 'Photography' started by Alan Browne, Aug 5, 2012.

  1. Alan Browne

    Savageduck Guest

    Of course not. ;-)
     
    Savageduck, Aug 12, 2012
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  2. Alan Browne

    Robert Coe Guest

    On 2012-08-11 17:20:48 -0700, tony cooper <> said:
    :
    : > On Sat, 11 Aug 2012 16:58:37 -0700, Savageduck
    : >
    : >> Now here there is something "wrong". The contrast due to the strong
    : >> highlights (I suspect blown highlights in the color version) needs
    : >> something else to fix the image. I don't believe there is a quick NIK
    : >> fix for this. I think that this is one of those times an ND Grad might
    : >> have helped. Perhaps adding a grad in ACR???
    : >>
    : >> Was there a particular reason you went B&W with this, or was it a
    : >> rescue effort?
    : >
    : > No, I saw it as black and white from the start. I liked the lines and
    : > the diagonals of the shadows. I was out and about and saw this in
    : > early morning with the sun behind the trees. I pushed it to max
    : > contrast deliberately. I didn't want detail.
    : >
    : > I wouldn't have shot it for a color image. I don't really remember
    : > the original.
    : >
    : >> Why do I think there might have been CA issues through the tree tops.
    : >
    : > I wouldn't have worried about any CA because I wasn't interested in
    : > any details in the leafy portions and expected any fringing to drop
    : > out.
    :
    : Alright then! Shot with B&W in mind from the start, so CA not an issue.
    : I just feel that it could be done a little differently from the
    : original RAW, it still feels like something of a "rescue" to me.
    :
    : What I like is, unlike many others, you are prepared to step out of
    : your comfort zone and shoot for experimentation.
    : It can be fun.
    :
    : I know this is not your high contrast line of trees with the Sun behind
    : them, but is this vaguely the sort of thing you had in mind?
    : < http://db.tt/FGtA4wYe >

    I like Tony's trees better.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Aug 12, 2012
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  3. Alan Browne

    Savageduck Guest

    Come on! They both suck.
     
    Savageduck, Aug 12, 2012
  4. Alan Browne

    Robert Coe Guest

    On 2012-08-12 05:23:40 -0700, Robert Coe <> said:
    :
    : > On Sat, 11 Aug 2012 20:31:20 -0700, Savageduck
    : > : On 2012-08-11 17:20:48 -0700, tony cooper <> said:
    : > :
    : > : > On Sat, 11 Aug 2012 16:58:37 -0700, Savageduck
    : > : >
    : > : >> Now here there is something "wrong". The contrast due to the strong
    : > : >> highlights (I suspect blown highlights in the color version) needs
    : > : >> something else to fix the image. I don't believe there is a quick NIK
    : > : >> fix for this. I think that this is one of those times an ND Grad might
    : > : >> have helped. Perhaps adding a grad in ACR???
    : > : >>
    : > : >> Was there a particular reason you went B&W with this, or was it a
    : > : >> rescue effort?
    : > : >
    : > : > No, I saw it as black and white from the start. I liked the lines and
    : > : > the diagonals of the shadows. I was out and about and saw this in
    : > : > early morning with the sun behind the trees. I pushed it to max
    : > : > contrast deliberately. I didn't want detail.
    : > : >
    : > : > I wouldn't have shot it for a color image. I don't really remember
    : > : > the original.
    : > : >
    : > : >> Why do I think there might have been CA issues through the tree tops.
    : > : >
    : > : > I wouldn't have worried about any CA because I wasn't interested in
    : > : > any details in the leafy portions and expected any fringing to drop
    : > : > out.
    : > :
    : > : Alright then! Shot with B&W in mind from the start, so CA not an issue.
    : > : I just feel that it could be done a little differently from the
    : > : original RAW, it still feels like something of a "rescue" to me.
    : > :
    : > : What I like is, unlike many others, you are prepared to step out of
    : > : your comfort zone and shoot for experimentation.
    : > : It can be fun.
    : > :
    : > : I know this is not your high contrast line of trees with the Sun behind
    : > : them, but is this vaguely the sort of thing you had in mind?
    : > : < http://db.tt/FGtA4wYe >
    : >
    : > I like Tony's trees better.
    : >
    : > Bob
    :
    : Come on! They both suck.

    Well.... Of the two, I prefer Tony's. I admit that the packing peanuts all
    over the ground don't help it any, but the overall composition isn't bad.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Aug 12, 2012
  5. Alan Browne

    Robert Coe Guest

    On 2012-08-11 15:20:11 -0700, Robert Coe <> said:
    :
    : > It might be interesting to see what [the Duck's Half Dome shot] looks like
    : > in color. The excessive contrast down the middle might be mitigated by the
    : > deeply wooded portions being dark green, rather than black.
    :
    : OK!
    : Here is a color version and a side-by-side comparison.
    : < http://db.tt/ZVjYoasQ >
    : < http://db.tt/Rz16bwMj >

    I'm ambivalent. The color version cures the excessive contrast (without
    imparting much green, which is OK), but the lack of the yellow-filter effect
    of the B&W conversion leaves an overall hazy look and a sky that's lighter
    than ideal. Given the apparent angle of the sun, maybe a polarizer would have
    helped. But of course that kind of second guessing doesn't change the picture.

    If I had taken the picture (in Canon RAW mode) and were editing it with DPP,
    I'd try landscape mode to try to darken the sky. And maybe up the auto
    lighting adjustment from normal to high. I have no idea what those tweaks
    translate to in the Nikon or Photoshoppe worlds.

    The bottom line is that I think I do prefer the color version, but not by as
    much as I might have expected.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Aug 12, 2012
  6. Alan Browne

    Savageduck Guest

    OK! Now that is settled I will see what I can do attacking it with the
    intent to produce a decent color image. I had only dealt with it before
    with B&W in mind.
     
    Savageduck, Aug 12, 2012
  7. Alan Browne

    tony cooper Guest

    The image of the black and white trees that I linked to is *exactly*
    what I had in mind. It's a scene that I saw when driving, thought
    "That would make a good b&w image", snapped it, and processed it
    exactly as I wanted it to be. The "packing peanuts" are the way the
    grass looks when you process it as I processed it.

    I take photographs, I post photographs here and to the SI, and I post
    photographs to some online forums. I'm under no illusion that other
    people like all - or even some - of my photographs. That's very much
    to be expected, and I have the same feeling about the photographs of
    others. I don't get wounded when someone doesn't like a photograph of
    mine or suggests a major change in the composition or processing.

    What I saw in this scene was a row of parallel lines and a row of
    diagonals that appealed to me. I saw shapes and alignment of shapes,
    not trees.

    The Duck's image, to me, is a hodge-podge of shapes that don't
    contribute to a cohesive image. The extreme contrast of black and
    white doesn't do anything for the scene. A color version might work
    better, but - still - there's no real element of interest here. A
    converging line of trees has possibilities, but there's too much here.

    I accept the Duck's comment that my image is a mistake and an apparent
    rescue shot with good grace. That's his view, and he has the chops as
    a photographer to make that comment. I know that he has an eye even
    if it's not always the same eye that I'd use. I'm sure the Duck views
    my comments on his image the same.
     
    tony cooper, Aug 12, 2012
  8. Alan Browne

    Savageduck Guest

    The concept of a capture of a line of backlit trees in silhouette I
    grasp and appreciate. What I questioned was the execution, and I still
    feel that there was something not quite right at the time of exposure,
    probably with your exposure setting. Of course I could be completely
    wrong. IMHO I think if you revisited that site and reshot with a
    different eye toward planing and metering the shot, you would gain a
    much more satisfying result.

    As far as my image goes, I tried to find something similar with backlit
    trees, and the only one I could find in my archives among my rejects
    was the one I used. Now I know why it was a reject in the first place.
    ;-)
     
    Savageduck, Aug 12, 2012
  9. Alan Browne

    Savageduck Guest

    I have done my butchery. Here is my worked over Half Dome & Upper
    Valley, together with a comparison with the first color version posted.

    New Color version:
    < http://db.tt/pMqAaITH >

    Comparison:
    < http://db.tt/eDhLoqnU >
     
    Savageduck, Aug 12, 2012
  10. Alan Browne

    Savageduck Guest

    I also revisited the B&W conversion. This time I used a green instead
    of an orange filter and used the new color version as a starting point.
    With a few fine structure and contrast adjustments in Silver Efex Pro I
    have the new B&W version, and a comparison with the first one:

    New B&W:
    < http://db.tt/IhyhkMqG >

    B&W comparison:
    < http://db.tt/i1Es6eKb >
     
    Savageduck, Aug 12, 2012
  11. Because the sun shone out of his arse.
     
    Grimly Curmudgeon, Aug 12, 2012
  12. Alan Browne

    Eric Stevens Guest

    Now that's better. It's damned good in fact.

    My fingers keep twitching to have me do something about the green in
    the valley but, how would I know, I've never been there and I
    certainly wasn't there when you took it.
     
    Eric Stevens, Aug 12, 2012
  13. Alan Browne

    Eric Stevens Guest

    Is that what you call 'back-lighting'?
     
    Eric Stevens, Aug 12, 2012
  14. Alan Browne

    PeterN Guest

    <BFG>
     
    PeterN, Aug 13, 2012
  15. That should be: "Your objecting to gratuitous personal insults is on par
    with nospam's
    correcting capitalization in posts."

    Or: "You, objecting to gratuitous personal insults, are on par with nospam
    correcting capitalization in posts."

    Always glad to further a 'discussion'! :) :) :) :)
     
    John McWilliams, Aug 17, 2012
  16. Alan Browne

    PeterN Guest


    OK
    Objections are; or
    Your objection is; ;-)
     
    PeterN, Aug 17, 2012
  17. Alan Browne

    tony cooper Guest

    But, it's "you...objecting...is... as I wrote.
     
    tony cooper, Aug 17, 2012
  18. Alan Browne

    PeterN Guest

    I only took issue with the posting to which I responded. Not your posting.
     
    PeterN, Aug 17, 2012
  19. Alan Browne

    Robert Coe Guest

    : On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 21:51:43 -0400, PeterN
    :
    : >On 8/16/2012 8:44 PM, John McWilliams wrote:
    : >> On 8/6/12 PDT 8:20 PM, tony cooper wrote:
    : >>> On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 19:00:32 -0800, (Floyd L.
    : >>> Davidson) wrote:
    : >>>
    : >>>>> You are the blind man grasping part of the elephant and deciding what
    : >>>>> all of the elephant must be like.
    : >>>>
    : >>>> Off on another tangent with gratuitous personal insults...
    : >>>> What a shame.
    : >>>>
    : >>> You, objecting to gratuitous personal insults, is on par with nospam
    : >>> correcting capitalization in posts.
    : >>
    : >> That should be: "Your objecting to gratuitous personal insults is on par
    : >> with nospam's
    : >> correcting capitalization in posts."
    : >>
    : >> Or: "You, objecting to gratuitous personal insults, are on par with nospam
    : >> correcting capitalization in posts."
    : >>
    : >> Always glad to further a 'discussion'! :) :) :) :)
    : >>
    : >> --
    : >> “If we could read the secret history of our enemies, we should find in
    : >> each person’s life sorrow and suffering enough to disarm all hostility.”
    : >> ~ Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
    : >>
    : >
    : >
    : >OK
    : >Objections are; or
    : >Your objection is; ;-)
    :
    : But, it's "you...objecting...is... as I wrote.

    Afraid not, Tony. The commas around the verbal phrase "objecting to gratuitous
    personal insults" make it appositive, and therefore removable. This leaves
    "You is on par with nospam ...", which is clearly ungrammatical (and possibly
    not even true).

    But John also quibbles with how the sentence would read without the commas. He
    sees "objecting", with its modifiers, as a verbal noun phrase and the subject
    of the verb "is". The rule here is that pronoun modifiers of verbal nouns, at
    least in such cases as this, should be possessive. (I.e., "your objecting",
    just as it would be "your objection".) I'm afraid most grammarians, including
    my 11th-grade English teacher, would agree with John.

    If you want to prolong the agony, the argument you might make is that you
    meant the subject of the sentence to be the verbal noun phrase "you
    objecting", implying a slightly more continuous and less finite action than
    the other interpretation. Note that John let you get away with that
    interpretation in the phrase "nospam correcting capitalization" (vs "nospam's
    correcting capitalization", which would imply that he actually did it) later
    in the sentence.

    Why all this? Well, it's Saturday morning; I'm bored; it's too wet to mow the
    lawn and too early to leave for the juried show at the Griffin Museum of
    Photography; and wasting time on Usenet is a proud tradition to be upheld.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Aug 18, 2012
  20. Alan Browne

    PeterN Guest

    Hey, I am waiting for my wife to get dressed. I quickly realized that
    when I awoke, I didn't have the time to do any photography. I had
    planned to get up around 5 and be back by 10:30. I awoke on time, but
    couldn't get up. In retrospect that was a mistake.
     
    PeterN, Aug 18, 2012
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