Would there be great truth to this?

Discussion in 'Professional Video Production' started by reqluq, Oct 11, 2005.

  1. reqluq

    reqluq Guest

    Or are they just *tryin' to take my money* :)
    I assume one would need extras to help out,but is it as grave as:*But
    without the proper accessories these cameras will be hard pressed to produce
    imagery that looks much better than your typical home video*

    http://www.saferseas.com/vsd/eye/eye1.html

    " A DSR-500 ($15,000 worth) will produce an excellent picture quality right
    out of the box as will the PD170, VX2000, and Canon XL1s. But without the
    proper accessories these cameras will be hard pressed to produce imagery
    that looks much better than your typical home video.Don't be fooled into
    thinking that the camera itself will make the video look good. Equally if
    not more important are the additional devices needed to capture scenes in
    varying environments and using methods that apply to the given situation."

    Then they go on to the asscessory price list:

    Package #1 The Eye of The Storm Studio
    PD-170 Pro Shooters Package
    Complete $7695 -Sony DSR PD-170 NTSC USA Retail Box Unit
    -7200 MA 12 Hour Battery Pack
    -Thermodyne Custom Fit Hard Case
    -Century Optics .65 Wide Angle Lens (Bayonet Mount)
    -Century Optics 2x Telephoto Lens (Bayonet Mount)
    -Century Optics Rectangular Sunshade/Filterholder
    -Century Optics LCD Magnifier/Sunshade
    -Schneider 4x4x1/4 inch "Tru-Pol Polarizing" Glass Filter
    -Schneider 4x4x1/4 inch "UV Haze" Glass Filter
    -Schneider 4x4x1/4 inch ".9 Graduated Neutral Density" Glass Filter (Soft
    Edge)
    -Schneider 4x4x1/4 inch "Clear" Glass Filter
    -Sennheiser ME66 w/K6 Power Module
    -Sennheiser ME66 Hard Case and Foam Windscreen
    -Vanguard Aluminum Hard Case for Lens/Filter Kit
    -Sachtler DV-2 II Aluminum Tripod 1-Stage
    -Sachtler 7051 Dolly)
    -Sennheiser EW500ENG UHF Wireless Microphone System
    -Sennheiser ME64 Handheld Mic Capsule
    -K-Tek Boom Pole w/Mic Shock Mount
    -2 XLR Mic Cable (1: 24 inch and 1: 30 foot)
    -20 Sony Premium MiniDV Tapes
    -1 Sony MiniDV Cleaning Cassette
    -1 Schneider Pro Lens Cleaning Cloth
    -1 Schneider Cleaning Solution Spray
    Etc...
     
    reqluq, Oct 11, 2005
    #1
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  2. reqluq

    Jack P Guest

    :*But
    without the proper accessories these cameras will be hard pressed to produce
    imagery that looks much better than your typical home video*



    You could shoot through a muddy plastic bag with a PD150/170
    and you'd be hardpressed to **** up it's picture quality...

    What you're reading is MARKETING

    these guys have nice packages --- quality accessories, but pretty EXPENSIVE

    Get yourself a PD170 and a bogen tripod (not my first choice but whatever)

    a good sennheiser Evolution wireless mic and MAYBE a Wideangle lens ---

    and with practice you can shoot almost anything----- and get good results
     
    Jack P, Oct 11, 2005
    #2
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  3. reqluq

    reqluq Guest

    I kinda figured that was the case,whew
    the tripod?or both?
    cool thanks
     
    reqluq, Oct 11, 2005
    #3
  4. In a way they have a point. Good (even excellent) equipment doesn't
    necessarily make good video. Many of the things in that kit are very
    useful for enhancing your ability to make good pictures. Of course if
    you don't know how to use them properly, they don't do you any more
    good than an expensive camera :)

    I am always wary of these "kits" from dealers. You gotta ask yourself
    if it makes sense to spend $7500 on a $2500 camera and a bunch of
    accessories you may not even need (or know how to use properly).
    And then, of course, you have to consider whether you are geting
    a decent price on the bundle (as contrasted with buying the pieces
    when you need them).

    Their list seems a bit strange. There is a tripod (not exactly the better
    variety of that brand) and even a dolly, but no pan/tilt head. Did they
    just leave it out by accident? Are they going to try to "upsell" you
    when you go to order the kit? How confident are you of this store?
    Have you checked it out?
     
    Richard Crowley, Oct 11, 2005
    #4
  5. Broadway Video is famous for giving you a very low price on the camera,
    but one of their tricks is, they break out all the accessories that
    Sony, Canon, etc. originally packed with the camera, and make you pay
    for them a la carte...
    "oh, you want an AC power supply and battery charger with that? That's
    more. Battery? More. Shotgun mic? More. tripod mounting plate? Hard
    case? More..." etc etc.

    They other gimmick shady stores use, you've seen: Upsell you a whole
    bunch of accessories that, depending on your task, may not even apply.
    Hell, they'll try to push an underwater case on you if they can.
     
    nobody special, Oct 12, 2005
    #5
  6. reqluq

    reqluq Guest

    I thought that's what I was doing now :)
    req
     
    reqluq, Oct 13, 2005
    #6
  7. ...
    No, you're not likely to find HERE a very representative sampling
    of people who have been customers of SaferSeas (or any particular
    vendor except maybe B&H, etc.) There are several websites devoted
    to actual customers rating various online vendors like this. You
    cannot do that kind of research in any newsgroup.
     
    Richard Crowley, Oct 13, 2005
    #7
  8. reqluq

    reqluq Guest

    My concern is not with who is selling right now,I'm more concerned with
    having to buy a lot of that gear along with the expensive camera..no matter
    who is selling..I know that later on as one progresses more gear will be
    craved,but to get started what would be the minimums..this is my
    question..then I'll check epinion .and the other forums etc. for good
    sellers
    thanks
    req
     
    reqluq, Oct 13, 2005
    #8
  9. reqluq

    Toby Guest

    First of all, a home video camera is capable of producing pretty nice
    pictures. Better than what we used to get out of Umatic in the 80s. That
    being said, none of the items that they offer in the package will not help
    in one situation or another--each one extends the capabilities of the basic
    camera in one way or another. But personally I don't like these packages,
    because they don't allow you to choose only the items you need, or let you
    choose among brands and models with items that you need. You could almost
    certainly do without a clear filter in most situations, for instance, or you
    could get a screw-on front lens protector instead of a square filter, which
    offers better protection because it seals the front element against the
    elements and being closer to the lens gives you less problems with dust
    spotting, etc. Perhaps you don't immediately need a 30 ft XLR cable, or
    perhaps you could get away without the Century doubler or the wide adapter
    or both. You might prefer a different brand of tripod, and you could
    probably dispense with a dolly altogether and just rent one for the very
    occasional times you need it.

    All of the equipment that they offer seems to be fairly decent--it isn't a
    shoddy package--but unless you get a substantial discount on the individual
    prices by buying the whole kit and kaboodle you would be much better off to
    pick up what you need when you need it, and have the choice of buying the
    brand/model of your choice.

    Just my two cents,

    Toby
     
    Toby, Oct 13, 2005
    #9
  10. reqluq

    reqluq Guest

    folks...folks... *take my money* is in asterics with a smile...meaning I'm
    seeing them fo who they are.but am interested in what it takes to get off to
    a good start.
    thanks
    req
     
    reqluq, Oct 13, 2005
    #10
  11. Maybe the simplest way to answer that is that if you have
    to ask that question, perhaps you shouldn't spend your money
    on all that stuff starting out. Absolutely no disrespect meant
    to you. We all started somewhere/sometime. And you show
    promising wisdom in questioning the advertising message.

    A great deal of it depends on what/how you think you will
    be shooting. For example, you probably need a decent
    tripod/head (unless you are shooting exclusively hand-held.)
    You likely need a good microphone and headphones to
    monitor what you are picking up (unless you are just shooting
    nature footage or "B-roll" or something.) You likely need
    a filter or two (at minimum an IR filter to protect the lens,
    etc.) but not sure if you need all those filters (especially
    the square ones) unless you are shooting very carefully
    staged film-style scenes.

    And then there is the matter of lighting. Of course this
    depends *greatly* on what/how you are shooting, but
    decent lighting (vs. inadequate) makes a much bigger
    difference between good video and lousy video than
    almost anything on that list. Again *depending on what
    you are shooting* you may be better off buying a decent
    lighting kit. Or even assembling your own. One of my
    sources on lighting...
    http://www.bluesky-web.com/new-page6.html
     
    Richard Crowley, Oct 13, 2005
    #11
  12. reqluq

    reqluq Guest

    Thanks for the reply richard,Iwant to do my own band videos,music video,and
    just general promotional recording of the band at gigs,also would eventually
    like to do branch off into weddings,documentaries etc..
    req
     
    reqluq, Oct 13, 2005
    #12
  13. "reqluq" wrote ...
    If I were going to be shooting concerts on location, I would be
    careful to select a camera that had above-average low-light
    capabilities. It usually isn't possible to find adequate lighting for
    video at those events, and it impractical to try to "improve" it.
     
    Richard Crowley, Oct 13, 2005
    #13
  14. reqluq

    reqluq Guest

    What cam wold you choose if you were in my situation?I've heard the pd 170
    is great in low light
    req
     
    reqluq, Oct 14, 2005
    #14
  15. reqluq

    Toby Guest

    In that case I would completely forgo the package. Get a good solid tripod
    with a good head with enough drag to make smooth moves out on tele and a
    good tele adapter if the camera doesn't have interchangeable lenses. You are
    not always going to be at the front of the stage and will want some reach. I
    don't know how the zoom servos are on the prosumer models that you are
    looking at but you will want a good one that allows infinite speed changes
    and smooths starts and stops if you plan to do any on-camera zooms. I agree
    with Richard that you ant to look at S/N ratio and low light performance.
    And you will need a decent mic and a way to monitor your audio--you should
    decide if you need to work in stereo of if mono will be enough. For music
    videos you might also find a wide adapter useful for unusual angles and
    exaggerated perspective.

    My 2 cents.

    Toby
     
    Toby, Oct 14, 2005
    #15
  16. reqluq

    Toby Guest

    And of course for this kind of work shooting is only the first step--the
    fun really begins in the edit ;-)

    Toby
     
    Toby, Oct 14, 2005
    #16
  17. Well, I bought a Sony DSR-300, but we don't know what your
    budget is?
     
    Richard Crowley, Oct 15, 2005
    #17
  18. reqluq

    reqluq Guest

    My budget is in the pd 170 range.I don't want to spend a great deal of money
    and then hardly use the thing;commercially that is,so I want a sort of
    starter cam but good enough if I decide to take it futher I don't need to
    shop again..
    req
     
    reqluq, Oct 15, 2005
    #18
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