Wow! - don't the Japanese make great cameras?!....

Discussion in 'Digital SLR' started by ASAAR, Aug 19, 2005.

  1. ASAAR

    ASAAR Guest

    Polly wants to be a cracker.
    ASAAR, Aug 19, 2005
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  2. ASAAR

    ASAAR Guest

    How convenient that population density is not part of your

    That's not a popular view at all. It is, however, a view held
    within a number of racist circles.
    ASAAR, Aug 19, 2005
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  3. ASAAR

    Polly Pentax Guest

    On December 14, 1945, Japanese soldiers forced 150 American prisoners of
    war at a compound on Palawan into an air-raid shelter. Then they doused them
    with gasoline and threw in a matc

    A few of the Americans, a very few, survived. Army PFC Eugene Nielson was
    one of the survivors. He later described the atrocity to U.S. intelligence

    The trench smelled very strongly of gas. There was an explosion and flames
    shot throughout the place. Some of the guys were moaning. I realized this
    was it -- either I had to break for it or die. Luckily I was in the trench
    closest to the fence. So I jumped and dove through the barbed wire. I fell
    over the cliff and somehow grabbed hold of a small tree... There were
    Japanese soldiers down on the beach. I buried myself in a pile of garbage
    and coconut husks. I kept working my way under until I got fairly covered
    up... The Japanese were bayoneting [prisoners on the beach]. They shot or
    stabbed twelve Americans and then dug a shallow grave in the sand and threw
    them in.

    Nielsen hid in the garbage until the Japanese left. He then made a break for
    it but the Japanese saw him and started firing. He jumped into the sea and
    was shot several times. Miraculously, he lived and managed to escape --
    swimming for nine hours and eventually finding his way through the
    Philippine jungle to American guerrilla forces

    It was Nielsen's story that helped convince the American Command to rescue
    the prisoners at Cabanatuan prison camp. It was also his story that made the
    prisoners of Cabanatuan particularly terrified.

    The Cabanatuan POWs had heard all about Palawan. They had assembled a secret
    radio and, in fact, knew a lot about American movements and successes in the
    war. The radio was ingenious. It was assembled inside a water canteen.
    Former POW James Hildebrand recalled how the prisoners tricked the Japanese
    into helping them build their secret radio

    ....[The guys] were fixing Japanese radios and they would take certain parts
    out and tell the Japanese those parts needed replacing, and it was up to the
    Japanese to get those parts. Well, the Japanese never asked for those parts
    back, and if you get enough parts you can make a radio, and that's exactly
    what they did. They fooled the Japanese.

    The news of Palawan terrified the POWs. Many felt that they were next. They
    believed that their Japanese captors were plotting their massacre. After
    all, they had all seen acts of Japanese brutality firsthand. Many had been
    through the infamous death march -- where the Japanese army had marched an
    estimated 72,000 Americans and Filipinos 65 miles to San Fernando, Pampanga.
    Hampton Sides, author of Ghost Soldiers, estimates that 750 Americans and
    5,000 Filipinos died on the march -- victims of starvation, disease, and
    random executions. (It should be noted that estimates vary widely. A study
    document put out by the Department of Veteran's Affairs puts the American
    deaths at 650 and Filipino deaths at 16,500. Forrest Johnson, author of Hour
    of Redemption, puts the U.S. deaths at 2,275 and Filipino deaths between

    On the march, the men witnessed arbitrary executions of their fellow
    American and Filipino soldiers and of Filipino civilians who had offered
    food or water to the marchers. Bert Bank remembers:

    One of the POWs had a ring on and the Japanese guard attempted to get the
    ring off. He couldn't get it off and he took a machete and cut the man's
    wrist off and when he did that, of course, the man was bleeding profusely.
    [I tried to help him] but when I looked back I saw a Japanese guard sticking
    a bayonet through his stomach.

    On the second day, a fully pregnant Filipino woman threw some food out...
    this POW in front of me picked up the food and started eating it; and a
    Japanese guard came... and decapitated that POW... and then he went and cut
    the stomach out of the Filipino woman. She was screaming "Kill me, Kill me,"
    and they wouldn't do it.

    The POWs also experienced intense cruelty at the hands of their captors in
    Cabanatuan. All had witnessed hundreds of their compatriots die for lack of
    food and medicine. All had witnessed torture and summary executions. All had
    experienced Japanese brutality firsthand.

    Former POW Richard Beck remembered:

    It's a very sinking feeling to know that you are going to be abused for a
    long period of time, and that's exactly what it was, it was a long period of
    abuse -- starvation, beatings... Some people were shot for no reason at all,
    so you never knew how to assess the situation, whether you should try to
    lead a low profile. It was a case of never knowing how to cope.

    The Cabanatuan POWs' fear of becoming victims of another large scale
    massacre were well founded. After the war, it became clear that there
    existed a high command order -- issued from the War Ministry in Tokyo -- to
    kill all remaining POWs. This order, read in part:

    Whether they are destroyed individually or in groups, and whether it is
    accomplished by means of mass bombing, poisonous smoke, poisons, drowning,
    or decapitation, dispose of them as the situation dictates. It is the aim
    not to allow the escape of a single one, to annihilate them all, and not to
    leave any traces

    It also became clear after the war that the Japanese were responsible for
    horrific abuses of POWs aboard tankers leaving the Philippines and bound for
    Japan. These tankers became known as hell ships. The Japanese put masses of
    men in the holds of tankers and gave them little food, light, room or water.
    The men died at an alarming rate -- of suffocation, thirst, and madness.
    They also died of allied bombing , since the hell ships were not marked with
    a white cross, as specified by the Geneva Conventions, to indicate POWs were
    on board. The men who survived these tankers became slave laborers in
    Japanese mines and factories

    Throughout the Pacific theater, the Japanese treated POWs and civilians
    barbarically. Survivors of camps in Indonesia, Thailand, Singapore, Burma
    and Laos all reported experiencing tremendous cruelty, torture, disease and
    starvation. It is an astounding fact that while POWs died at a rate of 1.2%
    in Germany, they died at a rate of 37% across the Pacific.
    Polly Pentax, Aug 20, 2005
  4. ASAAR

    wavelength Guest

    And the Germans make great cars.

    The American "indian killers" make great things too.

    Should we not buy Itailian suits because the Romans were such brutal

    Should I boycott gyros because of thing the Greeks did in ancient

    Should I boycott the French just because they annoy me?
    wavelength, Aug 20, 2005
  5. ASAAR

    Polly Pentax Guest


    You obviously haven't read the post, or the other well documented accounts
    of Japanese atrocities - such as the live vivisection of captured American

    The only problem with the A-bomb's is that there were only two of them - the
    opportunity should have been taken to sink Japan into the sea.
    Polly Pentax, Aug 20, 2005
  6. ASAAR

    cluedweasel Guest

    Reminds me of the parents of a girlfriend. Her father was a POW of the
    Japanese so they boycotted products from there. So what did they buy?
    Volkswagen cars, a Grundig television, a Bosch washing machine and
    dish washer. Had to split with her seeing as the Germans bombed my
    granny's house :)
    cluedweasel, Aug 20, 2005
  7. ASAAR

    Mark² Guest

    When an 85 year-old, former Japanese prison guard
    tries to sell me a camera, I'll keep this in mind.

    In the meantime...perhaps you should move to the Middle East.

    There you will find millions of people willing to hold centuries-old
    Mark², Aug 20, 2005
  8. ASAAR

    Paul Heslop Guest

    Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
    Paul Heslop, Aug 20, 2005
  9. ASAAR

    Paul Heslop Guest

    I suggest she just try walking round somewhere like bradford spouting
    her racist shit.
    Paul Heslop, Aug 20, 2005
  10. After wasting 5 minutes of my day reading this I don't understand what on
    earth it has to do with cameras. Are you suggesting that we should think
    twice about buying a camera that was designed and built by people who were
    born (and probably choose to live) in a certain part of the world because
    war atrocities were committed by some soldiers who also happened to be born
    in the same part of the world a generation or two before them?

    I wouldn't be at all surprised if todays generations of Japanise are just as
    disapproving of the actions of the war time soldiers as the rest of us - so
    why try to punish todays generation? - they weren't there - they didn't have
    anything to do with it.

    Cockpit Colin, Aug 20, 2005
  11. ASAAR

    Slack Guest

    Can you please wait to drop the 3rd A-bomb till after the release of the 5D?
    Slack, Aug 20, 2005
  12. ASAAR

    Ronald Bruck Guest

    Or just move to Ireland. :)

    Seriouslym, what does all this have to do with cameras? (Apart from
    the title of the thread, which has a rather tenuous connection to the
    subject matter).

    --Ron Bruck
    Ronald Bruck, Aug 20, 2005
  13. ASAAR

    wavelength Guest

    Previous work by Polly:
    As if there were no U.K. residents of non-asian decent involved in
    human traffiking. And of course, EVERY asain must me a bloodthirsty
    merderous pervert bent on the destruction and/or whoring out of all the
    little white girls in the world.

    Pentax would be ashamed to hear thier good name slandered by your use
    of it as a monniker.
    wavelength, Aug 20, 2005
  14. ASAAR

    Paul Heslop Guest

    nothing, she is just a racist.
    Paul Heslop, Aug 20, 2005
  15. ASAAR

    Paul Heslop Guest

    they have actualy sworn never to go to war again, which is more than
    we can say for us more civilised countries eh?
    Paul Heslop, Aug 20, 2005
  16. ASAAR

    Polly Pentax Guest

    Your attitude is pretty typical - and is one of the saddest aspects of the
    entire tragedy.

    Sixty years is NOTHING! It's a mere 'blip', a momentary blink of an
    eyelid - yet, already, the deaths of hundreds of thousands of men, women,
    and children at the hands of the Japanese is irrelevant to those falling
    over themselves to buy goods from their murderers.

    They died in agony - yet, in their most terrible anguish, I do not believe
    for one moment that they thought their deaths would be so light regarded
    within two short generations!

    Shame on you - real, genuine, and execrable SHAME!
    Polly Pentax, Aug 20, 2005
  17. ASAAR

    Polly Pentax Guest

    As you are obviously a keen student of 'racism' (that's one of those trendy
    'non-subjects', of course) I'm surprised that you haven't turned your
    righteous indignation upon the Japanese - who were, are, and appear likely
    to remain, one of *the* most racist nations on the face of the entire earth!

    Every action they took in WW2 was impelled by their 'racism - as is their
    current refusal to accept anything other than a trickle of immigrants into

    Surely you can whip up some anti Japanese fervour? - or are you like most
    fearless anti-racists and subscribe to the popular view than only a white
    man can be subject to that vice??
    Polly Pentax, Aug 20, 2005
  18. ASAAR

    Charlie Self Guest

    And you buy cameras made where? My camera is from a Japanese company,
    was assembled in the Phillipines and the lens was assembled in Vietnam.
    Charlie Self, Aug 20, 2005
  19. ASAAR

    Paul Heslop Guest

    Not at all, but I think I have personally had not a jot of trouble
    with the japanese and don't think I've heard of anyone else who has.
    What happened is in the past. I'm not going to wish evil on the
    children of someone who committed atrocities any more than I am going
    to wish evil on your children... though I pity them
    Paul Heslop, Aug 21, 2005
  20. ASAAR

    Paul Heslop Guest

    We Brits have not only condoned such things but we have done our fair
    share too.
    We burned people alive, hung drew and quartered them etc etc etc.

    I am not sure there is a perfect race on this earth and for you to
    base your hatred on something that happened over half a century ago
    when probably a couple of streets away someone is being raped or
    murdered is sad, but then you're a pretty sad character all round.

    would you mind taking this shit where it belongs?
    Paul Heslop, Aug 21, 2005
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